This is an oral history interview with Amanda Coupland. It was conducted on November 14, 2022 at the Gorgas Library on the University of Alabama campus. The interview concerns her experience growing up and living in the south as a lesbian. The interviewers are Mitchell Lynn, McKenzie Walker, Makayla Brewer, Sydney Perry, and Callum Campbell.

 

ML: Hello

 

AC: Hello

 

ML: Like to start this out, could you just tell us a little about yourself?

 

AC: Okay, so my name is Amanda Coupland. I am 54 years old. I’ve lived in Alabama all my life. Yeah, I’m an engineer at a well-known car company that I probably shouldn’t say for recording purposes.  

 

ML: What part of Alabama are you from?

 

AC: A little town called Odenville, Alabama. It’s so small that the whole time I was growing up, it didn't have any red lights. They have one now, but there aren't things like sidewalks. Just a very small country town. I worked a cattle farm all of my youth just kind of as a part time job. Yeah.

 

MW: How would you describe your family dynamic growing up?

 

AC: So we were as I mentioned the cattle farm, we were kind of a working family. Early on, my father realized he was a workaholic. But he wanted to spend time with kids. So he had a lot of jobs. And the farm was really a part time gig. He had his PhD and he was Director of Career Education in Birmingham City. And he was chairman of the board of education for the county we lived in. And he was on like an accreditation team. And then we had a 200 head of cattle farm, that my brother and father and I ran in our part time. I started working about six years old. And my mother stayed home and was a homemaker. Yeah, so yeah, we really-- work was, was kind of valued in our, in our family.

 

MW: When you were a child, did you at any time notice that you were maybe not the same as other children?

 

AC: Oh, yeah, I was a lot different. I was the kid that was driving a truck at six years old. Yeah, I grew up in a, in a mostly male environment. There were-- in this small town, there were five of us that were cousins that were all the same age, me and four boys. And so anytime I went to play it was with the boys, I was not very happy to realize that I was not going to be a boy when I grew up. Not, not that it's something that I as an adult really ever wanted to be. But as a little kid, when the age came to stop running around shirtless in the yard, I was not happy about that. And to be honest, I'm still not happy about that. Yeah.

 

MW: Okay, do you feel like you were ever targeted by adults who noticed that?

 

AC: Hoo, yeah. My first cousin brought a girlfriend home. And I was 12 or 13 and had already realized that I was a lesbian. And it was at Christmas. And I remember she looked at me and I saw the light bulb go off over her head. And I was like, oh, yeah, she figured it out. She was never, she wasn't unfriendly, but she was never really nice to me again, that to this day, honestly. She had twin girls that I was really never allowed to be around. Yeah, they're in their 30s now and pretty cool people. When I do see them, they know who I am. Which is odd. Because, you know, they got to be in their 30s before I saw him again, and they knew who I was. So apparently I was the cautionary tale in their family. Um, other than that, you know, I don't really, as a kid, I didn't really pay much attention to what adults thought and I still don't really pay a whole lot of attention to what other people think. Yeah, it's good and it's bad. Good. I don't get my feelings hurt a lot. Bad, I’m kind of an ass sometimes and don’t know it.

 

MW: Would you say you had a relatively happy childhood?

 

AC: I did, actually. You know, I got to spend an awful lot of time with my father, which was really cool. You know, I got to hunt and fish and ride horses and what's not to like about that? Yeah, I got to play sports and yeah.

 

MW: Can you recall any big events in your childhood they may have related to your sexual orientation?

 

AC: No, real massive big event. I mean, there was no childhood trauma or anything like that. Yeah. I just Yeah, girls were nice. There was uh Jo from the Facts of Life. And I was like, Hey, hey. You don't believe me go back and watch it. She’s cute.  

 

MW: Alright, what type of household did you grow up in? Was it more conservative or liberal?

 

AC: So, my father also did some politics and he ran as a Democrat. They--.That's a hard question to ask, because in rural Alabama, things are different. Racism is rampant there even amongst the educated. Yeah, it's hard to answer. It's hard to answer. In some ways, they were pretty liberal and okay people. In other ways, they weren't really great. My father died when I was 17. He had cancer. And so he never really knew about me as an adult. Yeah, I never came out to him. My mother told me when I was 18, or 19, and I started hanging around with people she thought were unsavory characters, that if she ever found out I was a lesbian, that her relationship was over. And so I never came out to her. She died not knowing she had grandchildren. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of probably more than you asked for, wouldn't it? So, you know, y’all are like, aw, but it's something that happened so gradually that I don't really feel about it at all.

 

MW: If you could go back in time, what would you tell your younger self?

 

AC: Well, probably to do better in college, not, not be so wild. I came here and had a really good time. Yeah. When I was on campus, I was too afraid to go to the student organization here. They called it something different Gay Straight Alliance or something back then, which oddly enough was in Manley Hall. I always thought that was the biggest joke, you know. Yeah, but I never could work up the nerve to go. And so I spent a lot of my college time lonely and acting out because of that. Yeah. So I probably would tell myself to like, gut up and go in there. And, like, study every now and then.

 

MW: Okay, now we’re gonna kind of move into the religion category.

 

AC: Sorry, what?

 

MW: Our religion category?

 

AC: Sure.

 

MW: So during your childhood, what was your relationship with religion?

 

AC: So we grew up Presbyterian. If you went to, if you went to sleep at mom's house on Saturday night, you went to church on Sunday morning, unless you're my father, he got to sleep in because that was the only time he didn't work. He would go on special occasions. But yeah, we went to church.

 

MW: Did that relationship ever change?

 

AC: Not so much, really. I mean, when I came to college, I didn't go to church. I went a few times to the Baptist Student Union before I realized that that wasn't a great place for me. Yeah, because my roommate was really big into it. And they did pretty fun stuff, actually. Yeah. And then, after I became an adult, I started attending church again, there was a um, a branch of a church out of Birmingham that I can't think of the name of that started up here. And yeah, it was pretty much targeted for gay people, Metropolitan Community Church that eventually evolved into a place called God's house that actually still exists over in Holt. I didn't, after the kids were born, I didn't continue to go there because they didn't really have a Kids program. Yeah, we went there for a while. But we have done the Methodist thing kind of off and on. My wife is, grew up Pentecostal. And I grew up Presbyterian, which are kind of polar opposites, if you know anything about, so Methodism, is kind of a medium, you know, medium, middle of the road. So we've settled on that. And that's how we've raised the kids.

MW: Growing up in the South, in such a religious space, did you ever feel afraid of religion?

 

AC: No, I have not really had that experience. I know tons of people that have, believe it or not, the first time I was ever told that I wasn't welcome in a church was earlier this year. There was a church not far from our house. Our church closed because of COVID. Yeah, it just never, never recovered. And so there was a whole lot of people that were off searching for churches, and we were kind of keeping in touch with each other. Hey, you go to this one, and I'll go to that one. And if you like it, then we'll go check it out. We went to one and really, really enjoyed it when a couple of times and then we were like, Okay, let's go talk to the preacher and you know, see how this is gonna go. He was like, you're just not welcome here. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Wow, that's the first time anybody ever said that. So no, I wasn't afraid, but I'm really kind of pissed off.

 

MW: Have you ever had experiences outside of the religiously like dominated south? If so, how is life different for queer folks?

 

AC: I've lived here all my life. So yeah, sorry, can’t answer that one.

 

MW: Did you face any backlash from religious people when you came out?

 

AC: So after my mother passed, actually, at her funeral, I brought my wife and kids to the funeral and the rest of my family are really kind of swarmed around us. And we're extremely welcoming, which was shocking. Very, very shocking. And so the next day we went to church and like half the small town, rural Alabama church came over to say, glad to have you here. So I guess the answer to that is no. I mean, other than the, the jerk, and the church here recently.

 

MW: Do you believe in God today?

 

AC: Absolutely

 

MW: And would you consider yourself religious?

 

AC: Yes

 

MW: Do you believe there’s a difference between your religious views and spirituality?

 

AC: Hadn’t given that a whole lot of thought, I mean, there's definitely a difference between religion and spirituality, but my views and spirituality? Probably not, because aren't your religious views, your spirituality by definition? Yeah.  

 

MW: You kind of went over it a little bit, but what role did the church play in your identity, upbringing and sense of community?  

 

AC: So being gay was never preached for or against in, in my church, wasn't even a thought I guess for, for them. Yeah, so not so much.

 

MW: And then we’re gonna move on to relationships.

 

ML: Okay, so I know you mentioned that you never came out to your parents. And then touched on some of your family. Overall, how would you view your family support of your identity?

 

AC: Friendly when we're around each other. Yeah, they don't so much reach out. But yeah, when we see each other funerals, weddings, that sort of thing. They're friendly, if there's some business that needs to be taken care of we, you know, I distanced myself a good long time ago. I came to Tuscaloosa in like, 86 and never went back. Actually, I did go back and stayed one summer, summer between freshman sophomore year, and I was like, dude, I'll be homeless before ever live here again. I mean, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So distant but nice.

 

ML: So you’re growing up in Odenville, did you—since you didn’t really have that kind of support system inside the home, you know you couldn’t really be yourself, did you have kind of a support system outside of the home like teachers or anything?

 

AC: So there was a restaurant named Quincies. I don't know if y'all remember that. It was a buffet back in the 80s, the first real buffet that had bars and all that you could go get food. And I worked there as a part time job. Yeah, I think like my junior and senior year of high school, and they had Western night. And you had to wear a bandana and a cowboy hat. And so this woman I knew that was three or four years older than me came in and sat down one night and it was a slow night, I stopped by and was talking to her and she said, hey, it's funny that you’re wearing that bandana. I was like, why is that funny? She said, Oh, because where I come from, if you wear a red or blue whatever color bandana I had, that means you're gay, and I was like, Okay, and so she came in the next night on the thing and she's like, you didn't change your bandana, you must be really gay. And that was the first gay person I ever met.

 

ML: Could you tell us a little bit about what your first gay relationship was like?

 

AC: Oh, not so great. I was 16 and had a relationship with somebody that probably really wasn't gay. Best friend. Yeah, it was, yeah, she was about 14 been probably and I'm 16, not great. Not great. We're not friends today.

 

ML: Okay, so a lot of people in the LGBT community, they talked about having like a chosen family, right? Did you ever have that experience?

 

AC: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I have, I have a great, great chosen family. Actually. Yeah. A large group of people that love and take care of each other. Yeah

 

ML: So I know you mentioned that you are married , right? So you and your wife, how many kids do you have?

 

AC: Two

 

ML: Two kids? Ok, um, did you ever have any, any other gay people in your family that came out after you did?

 

AC: No, not at all. So I don't know if you're, if you're doing like nature versus nurture. I'm adopted and with almost no information until here recently. Yeah, I did one of those DNA tests and found a father in New Mexico. But well actually, when I was asking him if you had any information about my mother, he was like, oh, seems like her name was whatever it was. And I said, Yeah, that's kind of the information on my birth certificate. I you know, I wanted to see what he would say. And he said, yeah, you know, when I told him I was gay, he said, Yeah, I think your mother left me for another woman. So she is married to a man today and ghosts me. She won't talk to me at all. Yeah, but, but you know, I don't know these people. Yeah, but that, so maybe yes.

 

ML: So I kind of want to shift the conversation a little bit. To like, safe spaces.  

 

AC: Okay.

 

ML: So could you tell us about any safe spaces for gay people in or around Tuscaloosa when you were younger?

 

AC: So, yeah. There was Michael's bar that I pretty much lived in. It's where I met my wife. If it was open, and I wasn't working, that's where I was. Yeah, I knew most every female and about half the guys in Tuscaloosa at that time, because I really, I didn't drink much, but I hung out in there an awful lot. We did—I know you guys have probably heard of TLC, the Tuscaloosa Lesbian Coalition. Yeah, I’m Amanda of the map apparently. Yeah. Yeah, we had gatherings pretty often. Yeah, there was a, there was a women's bar that Harpo had I can't think of the name of it for a short period of time. Could have been--. You could go in the Chukker, which was next door, which, I’m sorry you guys missed the Chukker. It was pretty cool. Had Michelangelo’s painting on the ceiling, they called it the Sistine Chukker. It was pretty cool. And Egan’s. Egan’s, that was on the strip until not too long ago, was an okay place to go also. Yeah, it was alternative people of all sorts.  

 

ML: So when one of these bars right, would close down permanently? How did you see that? How would that affect the community?

 

AC: It's a pretty big blow. When, when the city bought the block that had Chukker and Michaels on it, that was a pretty big blow. I think that's when Harpo had started up the bar that didn't really make it terribly long, wasn't in a great location. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was, you know, it was a place where you could go and meet people and shoot a game pool and, and hang out and there just wasn't a place like that anymore. Yeah.

ML: So one thing that we've talked about in class, right is how these queer spaces, bars and such, are often times used as a place where LGBTQ people can access resources that it would be hard to find elsewhere. Could you tell us any experiences about maybe like, health care information and stuff like that being passed on in places?

 

AC: So the only time I ever remember it being anything like that was before the Mystic Crew of the Druids started, there was a group called the quilting bee. Yeah, you guys know the quilting bee, and the first ball, whatever event that they had was in Michaels bar. And they had a big silent auction where they had things like living wills. And, and there were lots of AIDS Resources, because AIDS was a big topic then. Yeah, that was the only, only time I remember it being. Yeah, but I didn't go to bars for health care. Oh, no, that wasn’t what I was looking for, they could have had a dozen pamphlets and I’d have never noticed.

 

ML: So we, you know, we really only have one, we have one gay bar here in town. Now. What do you think that—

 

AC: We have a gay bar here in town?  

 

Multiple: Icon.

 

AC: Yes, sorry. I've been in there a couple of times, and eh.

 

ML: What do you think towns like Tuscaloosa can do to foster like a gay community? Like, like, there used to be.  

 

AC: So, times are different. You know, you don't have to be as hidden, it's more socially acceptable. We have gay pride here now. There, there is, I think, a need for more queer space for sure. Yeah, if I were to open a bar, it would a, be smoke free, and b, it would, it would do other things also, during the daytime, like, a cereal bar, where you, where you go in and eat cereal on Saturday mornings and watch cartoons and yeah, to make, to make it more accessible for other people. I mean, I'm of the age now that I am not going out at 11 o'clock at night. It has to be a pretty special occasion for me to do that. I can remember when 11 o'clock, I was just getting ready to go out. But now I get up at 4:30 in the morning. So yeah, it wouldn't, it would be a great thing, actually to have a space that was multi-use.

 

ML: Yeah. So like you said, times are changing, right. One thing that I think we were seeing, is that queer youth are instead of using physical spaces, right, they are using the internet. Do you think that fosters the same kind of community?

 

AC: Absolutely not. Not, not by any stretch of the imagination. Not for any group of people. Yes, it makes communication quicker. But does it foster a sense of community? No. No

 

ML: And then, did you ever notice any kind of racial inequality in queer spaces?

AC: No. Not in queer spaces. Now, there was a, almost exclusively black bar that was right across the block from Michaels called the Black Orchid. But it was not queer space. But actually, I'd been at it a few times, and it was fun. But no, no, we didn't have you know, we were such a small community. We didn't have the luxury of being prejudiced against anybody. You know, I mean, you just accepted whoever came in whatever shape, form, fashion they were.

 

MW: Have you ever participated in politics and or advocacy for social issues?

 

AC: I have never run for political office. I have done some, some campaigning, some grassroots, if you will, work. We've, over the years have donated money to things like HRC when there's a particularly rough fight going on and felt like they needed extra funds. Not largely politically involved. But yeah.

 

MW: So you talked a little bit about living through like the AIDS crisis. Can you describe how that was?

 

AC: So I, honestly, as a high school student, when the AIDS crisis first happened, I was pissed off. Honestly, I didn't know how big a deal it was gonna be, but I was like, Okay, here we are ending the 70s and the sexual revolution, and here I am, it's my turn, and we've got something that’ll kill ya. Yeah. You know? And it did it killed lots and lots and lots of people. There were, there were people that just suddenly stopped coming to bars. And yeah, you know, and they got sicker and sicker, and then you'd hear that they'd died. And yeah, yeah, it was rough.

 

MW: So did you personally know anyone who was affected by it?

 

AC: A few, a few.

 

MW: Okay. So where would you like to see queer advocacy go in the future?

 

AC: Well that one needs a little thought I guess. Queer advocacy?  

 

ML: We can come back to that.

 

AC: Yeah, come back to that.

 

MW: Not to backtrack, but I’m kind of going to. So do you think living through the AIDS crisis inspired like any political participation in your life?

 

AC: No, actually, I don't. I think I have done what I would have done had AIDS been there or not.  

 

MW: Have you ever personally felt politically threatened while living in the south?

 

AC: Politically threatened? Every day. I mean, unless you're a straight white man, you're politically threatened living in the south. And even some of them.  

 

MW: Did or do you feel that your own contributions and political participation have created change in the queer community?

 

AC: I would hope so. I would hope so. I think over the years, we've done our best to make change. I think just being, being out and being out there, has done a good bit for creating change. So my kids were actually, my wife had our children, we used a sperm donor. And so when we got married, when we got legally married, the state of Alabama requires that you're married for a year before you can adopt children. So a year after we were married, I adopted my own children, which is odd. But we were the first couple in the state of Alabama to adopt gay, gay people to adopt, which was pretty cool I think. We, they asked us if we would like to be the poster children. And at that time, my kids were little, and I was like, Maybe we don't want their faces plastered all over the internet. Yeah, so but I know, when the lawyer sent the birth certificate to Montgomery to have it changed. They went, ah, because it said mother and father. And now it doesn't say that it says parent one and parent two.

 

MW: So considering that, have you ever thought of moving out of the south, politically and culturally?

 

AC: You know, that’s easy to do to just pack up and go. It's hard to live here. But if change is ever going to happen, people have to stay. Now, that being said, when my kids graduate from college, they're probably out of here. And we'll probably bother them and go wherever they go. That's kind of our plan. Yeah, if they stay here, then we'll get a travel trailer, and we'll go away occasionally. Yeah. Life is so much easier out of the south, I'm sure. Because we have friends that have moved away and talk about how much better it is, but somebody has to do the hard work.

 

MW: So you brought up marriage equality, when that happened in 2015, did you notice any changes in the community?

 

AC: Oh, absolutely. Just prior to marriage equality becoming legal, my work decided they were going to do domestic partner benefits. Yeah, which is pretty awesome. We had gone to Washington DC to get married because it was legal there before it became legal in Alabama. Yeah. And so my work was already kind of preparing and they had us bring in all these documents. And so I came in with this big stack of bills and you know, mortgage stuff and all and I was like, Do you want that? Or do you want my marriage license and the little gay guy that I was handing it to looked at it and went, ah, and was like, let me get back to you. And so they actually took my marriage license, which was pretty cool, because it wasn't really recognized in the state of Alabama yet. Yeah, since marriage equality there have been huge strides forward in, in political, in social, in work. Yeah, it's it's night and day.

 

MW: I’m glad you brought up the work point, because I think that’s something we maybe don’t consider that often, of like changing things, you know.  

 

AC: There were a lot of gay people at work and none of them were out. None of them. Not at work yet, but now they are. I work in a well-known car factory.  

 

MW: So do you think that there will ever be a place politically for LGBTQ plus people in Alabama?

 

AC: Alabama? Ever is a long time. Yeah, maybe one day? Probably not in my lifetime? Probably not in my lifetime, ever is a long time. Yeah. I mean, every time the government makes a step forward, Alabama is quick to rush in and put some sort of amendment in place without letting people vote on it. Yeah.

 

MW: How have your political views changed from your younger days to now?

 

AC: I, in my younger days, I really didn't think that it mattered who I voted for. Because we were so far removed from any sort of progress, that it was like voting for the bad guy or the bad guy. And now occasionally, you see a little glimmer of, hey, that one's not so bad. Now, are my candidates winning most of the time in Alabama? No. But at least I have a little hope. Yeah, and I still go stand in line and vote.

 

CC: So you might remember me from pride. I’m the one who did the project on the maps and stuff. Fish Fry. Tracer, Tracy, Trisha, Trisha, both wrong. I'm terrible with names. But since we kind of got thrown into this interview, they haven't really had much time to look in kind of background area as much as I have. So I'm going to ask you a few questions about TLC. So that can listen in and also get that education and stuff like that. But if you wouldn't mind if you just give a like, brief overview of TLC?  

 

AC: Sure

 

CC: That’d be great.

 

AC: So TLC stood for Tuscaloosa Lesbian Coalition. It was a totally social group that met at mostly, at people's houses it rotated from month to month. So I was invited to TLC by a friend. It was strictly for women. There were no, no guys at all in this. Yeah, we would meet and sometimes it was a potluck, or sometimes we just brought snacks and really had just social time. Occasionally, there was some sort of topic, but most of the time, it was just meet and greet and mill around and, and have a good time. We did a few things like the fish fry. We, we rented a place from Tuscaloosa County at Holly Springs. We rented from them one year and had a big barbecue out there. And I remember they, the older people pulled me aside and said there will be alcohol here and you will not drink. So it's been that long ago, because I was underage. They were like the older people are worried that you guys are going to drink. I'm cool. Oh, cool. We're just having a good time. Yeah, so we rented from them. And they found out that a lesbian group had rented from them and would not rent it again, to us the next year. And so there was a group, there were several lawyers in the group that took them to court and said you cannot not rent to us. And they, I think they settled out of court if memory serves correct with the agreement that they would not rent to anyone, that we will just not rent because we don't want the bad publicity and we don't want to go to court. And so Holly Springs stayed empty. It's a really great venue. It still exists. It's up 43. And, yeah, so it's up on lake and so a few years later, they decide added to rent again and we got word that they were renting so there was a big discussion about, do we try to rent it? We want to go back up there. And we decided, okay, we had our fight, but we still want to rent it. So we were the Andersons and it was the Anderson family reunion. We had one hell of a big party up there. They said if anybody asks you are the Andersons, you are all cousins and sisters and brothers and uncles and aunts. So we had the Anderson family there. Yeah, it was just that kind of group.

 

CC: Was there any? I remember on one of the newsletters to refresh you guys, they send out newsletters every, I think just once a month, twice a month?

 

AC: I don't remember.

 

CC: But so they sent out newsletters, and one of the newsletters. I just love this little section on there. And it's like, TLC welcomes all types of women, regardless of religion, race, like a whole bunch of things. And it was just like a side little thing. But I don't know if you were a part of that discussion. But would, was that reflected in the organization?

 

AC: If it was I don't remember. I do remember, at some point along the way, Michigan's women festival and I don’t know if you guys know what women’s festivals are or not but they had this big thing about, Oh, you had to be women born women. So that's what they called no trans people, you had to be a woman born woman. Yeah, to, to attend. And so it might have been in response to that. Or I don't know. We did have people from various religious backgrounds. Yeah, I can think of a Hindu and a lots of atheist and just a random assortment of people. So no, I don't remember exactly what that was in response to but my guess would have been maybe something going on at Michigan's festival.

 

CC: Gotcha, gotcha. Was there any specific times maybe other than the Anderson family reunion, that just is something you always fondly look back on? Or negatively looking back on, you could go either way on that one.

 

AC: Don't remember any negative times associated with it. The, uh, Leslie Feinberg came and spoke about a novel that she had written. And that was pretty cool. Yeah. It was a long time ago. Yeah.

 

CC: So also, I know, I mentioned earlier, you're from the map, I realized kind of removed from it. What was the reaction of you towards us? Kind of like freaking out over the map?

 

AC: Yeah, that freaked me out. So here's a lesson for all of you. Be careful what you do in your 20s. Because when you're in your 50s, someone will be studying you. I mean, that's really kind of what it was like. Think about 30 years from now, there's a map to your house hanging up on a tent and people are like, Oh my God, you're the people.

 

CC: So one thing about TLC, is that kinda gone now, we don’t have it anymore. Do you think we could have a organization like that again?

 

AC: So a few years later, actually, several years later, we started something called the gathering. And we had something similar. Yeah, with some of the same people and then new friends along the way. didn't last too long. Pretty tough to keep it and maintain it now because there are other options. Before it was the social event of the month, you know, I mean, it's something that everybody looked forward to. And I mean, we had a frickin newsletter. Yeah. Yeah. You know, today there are distractions like the internet and movies with gay people in them that we didn't have back then. Yeah, honestly, I don't think we even had TV at my house. And I mean, it was available. We were just poor. Yeah, you get so much more done, though. Without TV, you can do things like write a newsletter? Yeah.

 

CC: Well, I think that's questions for me. Do you guys have any questions about TLC?

 

ML: So. Yeah, about TLC. In kind of the heyday of the organization, like these social events, like what would you say attendance was like, like, how many people was it? Were these big, big, big events?

 

AC: Yeah, I'm guessing 25-30 people, on good nights, you know.

 

MB: I just have a random question.

 

AC: Okay.

 

MB: What is one thing you, you enjoy doing in your free time?

 

AC: That I enjoy doing in my free time now? I don't know that I really have free time. I have kids. Yeah. I would love to have time to be more of a gamer. I used to be a gamer before I had a wife and kids. Yeah. I would love to have more time to do that.

 

CC: What kind of, which game, type?

 

AC: RPGs for sure. Yeah, I like first person shooters  

 

CC: I would never picture that from you. But it make sense now.  

 

AC: You do see it?

 

SP: It might be a car company thing? My brother works there. That’s what he likes to do.  

 

CC: Maybe it’s the electronics and stuff like that.

MB: Did you, you enjoy playing games like when you were around our age too? Like arcades?

 

AC: Yes. Yes. Yeah, pinball actually. Pinball was a big thing. You know, it was around before the first video games.

 

ML: Would you, would you say you’re a Pinball Wizard?

 

AC: Probably, there was a pinball machine in Michael’s that I put a lot of quarters into.  

 

MB: Did you do anything else entertainment-wise, like when, while you were in Tuscaloosa, in college, other than going to the clubs and the bars?

 

AC: Yeah, I mean we went swimming in the river and yeah, there were some rope swings back then. I don't know if there are any more. I jumped off the bridge, jumped off the bridge and 69 north into the river, cliff jumping out at  you know. Yeah. I wasn't always a middle-aged Rode motorcycle, motorcycles. I don't know. You know, stuff. Yeah, hiking, camping. Buddy had a pickup truck and we would just throw stuff in the back and find some land to camp on, gun, a dog, and some food, would find a water source.

 

MB: This is kind of related to what you were talking about, about the druid—Mystic Crew of the Druids. Were you a member of that? Or now?

 

AC: No, I’m not now back, back in the early days, they didn’t allow females. They’ve in the last 10-12 years, they’ve started allowing females but I’m not a member.  

 

CC: Harpo was the very first one.  

 

AC: Yes, exactly. Oh, you know your history.

 

CC: I do. They make me know it.

 

CC: Were you ever wanting to be a part of the crew?

 

AC: No, no. That’s a huge time commitment. And yeah.

 

CC: Yeah. It’s, the crew is more like a sorority. Like that’s the time commitment for the crew.  

 

AC: It’s, and it’s very financially taxing.  

 

MB: So did you kind of just, not grow up,  but did you hang around Michelle and a lot of other--?

 

AC: No, my wife hung around her a good bit. That's, that's how I know her and from seeing her out at the bars but mine was more of the kind of woods and water crowd you know? Yeah, yeah. I love Michelle but you don't see her throwing a tent in the back of a pickup truck and off roading. You know, we just had different interest.

 

CC: Is that kind of seen in Trisha as well, or are you guys also polar opposite?

 

AC: She did go camping. She did not go with extreme camping like we did. But yeah, she, she camps but we are pretty much opposites.

 

SP: I do just wanna know, since you guys are like, opposites and stuff, just like how’d you guys meet? I know you said in Michael’s but like--?

 

AC: Yeah, she was there for a birthday party. I was there because it was open. And it was a really slow night, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, something like that. And the person that invited her for the birthday party introduced us not realizing that there would be a spark there because they were kind of sparking on her. Yeah. Yeah. And so we, our first date was actually gay pride in Birmingham, went and TLC had a banner. And I think it was Rose Gladny came running up to us and said, Hey, I know y'all, you’re from Tuscaloosa, hold this banner and march in the parade. And y’all this was going to be on TV. And my folks were in that marketing, you know, network. So we held the banner, but it was like right over our faces. So yeah, in our very first gay pride parade, we marched with the TLC.  

 

MB: Was it, was it pink?  

 

AC: I don’t remember. I think it was one of those big white kind of Pepsi Cola things, but it said TLC across.  

 

CC: Do you remember what year it might be?

 

AC: Yeah, it was 1991.  

 

CC: Okay. I think they have pictures from that.

 

AC: That'd be interesting. If I'm in any of them, I looked just like this, but like, skinnier and 30 years younger.

 

CC: If we find them, I will definitely be sending them your way.

 

AC: That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. We didn't take a lot of pictures back then. You know, no cell phone cameras. And it was expensive. Yeah.

 

ML: So just a few, like closing questions, perhaps? What words of encouragement would you give to young queer people?

 

AC: So be out as much as you can safely be out. There's still some danger. Yeah. My kid, I told y'all goes to college here and has friends that can absolutely not come out to their parents. Yeah, because they're still financially dependent. So be as out as you can be. But still protect yourself. Yeah, you know, you guys are the future. It's amazing how much things have changed in my lifetime. I can't imagine how much it's going to change in yours. Things have happened that I thought would never happen. You know, when I was sitting where you are, I never imagined that I'd be able to get married and, and all of that. It's just amazing. So you know, you guys keep fighting the good fight. Yeah.

 

ML: Do you have any? You have any regrets? Anything you’d kind of slap young Amanda in the back of the head for?

 

AC: Oh I don’t know, none I’m gonna say. I mean, if you get to be 54 years old, and you don't have regrets, you doing something wrong.

 

ML: Okay, well, maybe a better question is, if you could go back what's one thing that you wish you had done? You might not have gotten a chance to?

 

AC: I think we actually talked about that. I would. I would do better in school for sure.

 

ML: That’s right.

 

ML: All right. You could describe yourself in one word, what would you use.  

 

AC: Oh, gah, I’m a lot for one word. One word. How about precocious? That’s not, that’s not a good word. Yeah I don’t know.  

 

ML: Is there any other stories or anything you could think of that you’d like to share with us?  

 

AC: I have millions of stories. What, what topic do you want?

 

AC: I don’t know. I think I need a prompt. So, yeah, you’re talking about social events and entertainment. I had a job where I worked 12 hours a day, not every day of the week, but 12 hours a day when I worked. And so when I worked, I just worked. And when I was off, I was off for like, extended periods of time. And my wife and I hadn't been together too terribly long. But my friends all just loved her. And so I came home one day after work, and I got home at like six or seven in the morning. And there was a note on the bed that said, I've been kidnapped. So my friends had come. And apparently they burst into the house and said, You've got 10 minutes to pack a bag, go, and she was like, I'm not going anywhere. And they were like, Oh, yes, you are, you better be putting stuff in a bag. And so they kidnapped her and drug her to Six Flags against her will. So that's the kind of stuff, I also had kidnapped people in a similar manner. But yeah, we didn't take them to Six Flags. We took them to the woods. There weren't as amused. Yeah, you know, when, when there's not a whole lot of entertainment, you kind of make your own. And yeah, finding a good friend that you can just grab and not give them any choice but to go with you is, you know, it's entertainment.