This is an oral history interview with Marie Standifer. It is being conducted on April 5 at Starbucks in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and concerns her recollections and experiences of realizing that she was a lesbian and meeting her current wife.  The interviewers are Molly Elliott and Brooklynn Coleman.

 

ME: So, uh, It's so nice to talk with you today, Maria. So, we just wanted to start off this oral history by asking you a little bit about your background, like where you were born and raised. So how would you describe your upbringing?

 

 

MS: My parents were conservative, Southern Baptists. A loving home but very stretched. Education was not important. You know, it was getting married, have babies and done. What else do you wanna know?

 

 

BC: So like, Where are you originally from?

 

MS: Here. Tuscaloosa, homegrown.

 

BC: So how did how did you get out of outside of Tuscaloosa because I know you said that you go to Mississippi a lot?  

 

MS:I got married, and I go back and forth between Wanda’s home- her old home place, and I have a house here. I lived in Mill Valley for like six months. North Carolina for about three months, I always come back here.

 

BC: So, like Tuscaloosa is home?

 

MS: Yes.

 

ME: What were some things that you remember like vividly from your childhood?

 

MS: Breaking my leg?

 

MS: Are we talking about like?

 

ME: Like, did your family like to go to church a lot?

 

MS: My mom did. My dad did not. Yeah, we're definitely in church every time the doors open. Until I probably was about 13/14. And then that just kind of all fell on the wayside.

 

ME: And do you remember your first- the first encounter that you've ever had with the LGBT community?

 

MS: The community or my first experience with?

 

ME: Either.

 

MS: Either/or.  Well, I was- the first time that I've ever encountered anybody that was gay,I was I was married, but I hadn't met a woman that lived in the same area. And somehow or another, she and her girlfriend came to spend the night because whoever they were living with was having company and they had to leave. And I asked if Charlotte, was the other girl, if she was hungry, and she said yes. So, I went to get some spaghetti out of the frigerator. And my husband had already gone to bed, and she came in  there, and she told me she liked my nightgown. So I was young and stupid. And so when I reached in the refrigerator to get the spaghetti, and I came back up, she leaned over and went to kiss me on the neck, and I freaked. And I was excited at the same time but I freaked, because that just wasn’t right, you know. And so then I ran and jumped into bed and I told him what was going on. He thought it was funny and then later on, I went with Jerry, the partner to this girl, to my sister's graduation. And she elbowed me and pointed up, and it was this woman that was up in the stand. And I looked at her and I promise, I had this zing in my heart. And a few years later, I met her through my sister. And then we got together. And we were together for 22 years. So that was Yeah, call it love, lust or whatever.

 

ME:How old were you when that happened?  

 

MS: I was 21.  

 

ME: So you got married? How old were you when you got married

 

MS:18

 

ME: And how did you meet your husband at the time?

 

MS: I don’t remember, oh I know we were playing softball and, and a friend of mine had invited him. And he was there. And now I was 15 at the time, and so yeah, and he started coming to the house and I was gonna do what I knew I was supposed to do, get married and have babies, I wanted a football team and have cheerleaders on the side, but that didn’t happen either. But yeah, about-  we were married about 18 months I think. So-

 

ME: If you don't mind talking about it, what led up to the separation? And what was that like?

 

MS: Well, he was quite abusive. And I was young and dumb. If he said, Jump, I'd say how far, that kind of thing. And then I was at my mother’s house, and I'd already told him I wanted a divorce but he was still there. I tried to break up with him one time before, and he went everywhere I went. So he was like, Yeah, I told him, and he got up and I had [inaudible]. And he- and I went to go tell my dad, what was going on. He said, If you go in there, and he said, I will kill him. And I went to tell him anyways.

 

BC: So when you came out to your family, how did they take?

 

MS: Oh they didn’t.  My daughter ____ was in the bathroom and Merian had written me a love letter. And ___ was like, three maybe. And she was singing God Bless America off of that love letter when my mom was putting on her makeup, and mother saw the letter. And my mom was physically sick. She told me, she would rather see me dead, and Dad told me I was sick. And I needed to see the psychiatrist. So no, it wasn't good. But they didn't- they didn't kick me out or anything like that. They didn't. I mean, my mother, was literally physically sick for two weeks throwing up, and every time she looked at me and just made her sick. And I lied to her and I told her I would break it off. But I lied to her. You know, so that didn't happen. But as time walked on, she got to realize at that time that Merian was a good parent to my child, that was another thing she was afraid that with me being divorce and back then, that if my ex wanted to take me to court, he can have my child taken away from it. So that Yeah [inaudible]

 

BC: I know, you said that. You were raised conservatively. So did you raise your daughter that way? With the same views?

 

MS: No, no, no, I did take ____  to different churches, different you know, just so she could make up her own mind as to what she wanted to do. As far as being a member of an organized religion, no.

 

ME: So what is your relationship with your faith like now?

 

MS: I really like Unity, or Unitarian Universalist.

 

ME: I used to go there.

 

MS: Yeah, it's really interesting. But as far as that I think just nature itself. Yeah.

 

BC: So like, Are you religious now though?

 

MS: When you say religious?

 

BC: Do you actually go to a church?

 

MS: No, I haven't in a while. You know, it's probably been five years since I’ve been to an actual church.

 

ME: Even if you don't still carry those beliefs now? Is there still like parts of the religion or the faith or the lifestyle that you still carry with you now?

 

MS: Like, I believe in the teachings of Christ in that you should love one another but the same for you know, a lot of different religions, not just Yeah, I think everybody should be Christ like, but not church like..

 

BC: So I guess now we can talk about your experience with the Tuscaloosa Lesbian Coalition. So what role did you play?

 

MS: I was there.

 

ME: Mostly just attending? Did you ever help-

 

MS: It was a good- Well, you know, like, as far as getting Um, you know, we had different performers, from different genres. I didn't have anything to do with getting those people coming here. They're like, if there was a fundraiser, I was involved with that, whatever needed to be done. And I had meetings at my home. But yeah, that's about the extent of it.

 

ME: Could you like walk me through what a meeting with the TLC was like?

 

MS: It- For me, it was just a social gathering. We're talking about, you know, what we wanted to do? But, basically, yeah, it was just a place where we could meet. I know, one of the things, one of the biggest issues was because they wanted to keep it women's space, that if you had a male child, you could not bring that child to those meetings,

 

ME: Even if it was like a young child?

 

MS: Even if, yeah, you can bring female kids, but not male children. So. And that was an issue for some people. That that's one thing I do remember.

 

BC: So like, how did you find out about it?

 

MS: I guess just word of mouth. I can't remember exactly who said “Hey, there's this going on. You should come” I'm sure it was a friend of a friend and just word of mouth and someone, you know.  

 

ME: Were you ever, like nervous or scared to be a part of the coalition?  

 

MS: No.

 

ME: Did anyone there ever like- Did anyone else there seem like nervous or like feel fearful for their safety?

 

MS: Not during the meetings. It was just when we had the Holly Springs incident. When- Do yall know about that?

 

ME: I actually don't.

 

MS: Okay, so Holly Springs was- it was an old school, and the public could rent it out and use it for fundraisers or whatever. So we did it. We rented it one time, it was really a nice place. And had that laid down in front of it-

 

ME: Is this the story where you guys registered under like a different party name or something?  

 

MS: I don't recall that parl.  

 

ME: Okay. I'm sorry, keep going.

 

MS: But we rented it out, raised a lot of money, had a good time, auctions, all kinds of food. And then somehow, the County Board of Education owned it and when they found out about us and who we were, they decided not to rent it to us. And there was going to be a lawsuit. And that time is when people became very nervous because they weren't out in on that list of as a member. And I think that's when TLC kind of fell apart at that time because people were scared if they went to court their name was going to be dragged through all that.

 

ME: Are you still in contact with anyone from the TLC now?

 

MS: Well lets see.  A lot of the people that that were my friends have passed away. But Trish and Amanda yeah, I’m still friends with them. And Becky and Kim. One of my very best friends Jenny Mills, passed away two years ago. So yeah, my little clique is kind of gone, basically.

 

BC: I’m so sorry.  

 

MS: Yeah, me too. It happens. So get ready.

 

ME: I already hear my older family members talking about that kind of thing.

 

BC: So were you a part of any other organizations that made you feel safe? Or just the TLC?

 

MS: When I was part of the organization? I really didn’t even think about it, I was just going and getting to meet folks and you know, Alice Parker had a really interesting home you know, with all these different little artifacts and stuff and it was so cool, you know, and then Rose, and Marsha. I love both of them. They are just so sweet and calm, and I enjoy that energy, you know, it was just different from having to go to Birmingham to a bar to be around gay people.

 

BC: Do you have a favorite person that you met?

MS: I love everybody.  No, it's gonna be Dr. Rose, so that I met through TLC, yes.

 

ME: Do you have any specific like special memories with the TLC? Like any trips you guys might have taken or any events that like stick in your memory?

 

BC: Like the softball events?

 

MS: Yeah, I know. I knew I was a member of the ______. And it was a lesbian softball team. And we would go to Birmingham and play softball there, so. And a lot of the girls came from TLC with that so yeah, I like the- I love the fundraisers. Lucy Troupe Blue Trumbley, was a pianist and she was here and I loved that. There was a one woman play. I can't remember who that actress was. There were just and yeah, yall help me out. Stone Butch Blues-   

 

ME: Leslie Feinberg.

 

MS: I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah, I got to meet her. (inaudible) Their wife, how about that?

 

ME: Yeah, I think I've looked at Leslie's work Wikipedia page and they use her; and then I've also heard people say that she didn't really care so it’s whatever.

 

MS: Yes, I got to meet them, and…I do have a shirt that I got in an auction, a T-shirt that I got from there. What is this saying? has something to do with quiet women seldom make history or something? Would that be something you would be interested in having?

 

ME: Oh, absolutely. Yes.

 

MS: I don't have it here. It's in Columbus. But I spotted it in my closet. And I thought, well, I don't–I'm not gonna wear it. It's what, like a size 2?

 

 ME: If you want to give it to Dr. Giggie, I know they would love to have that. Because I know that if they can't take it the archives in Birmingham can definitely take it. That's actually really cool, thank you for offering that.

 

MS: I wish I had the other–we had a cool phoenix T-shirt, all purple, it was so (inaudible).

 

ME: Oh, that sounds nice.

 

BC: So like, going back to one of the questions before, where we asked about were you scared, did you feel unsafe in the organization. So what about as a lesbian woman? Were you ever scared for your safety?

 

MS: No, I never was–I guess because I was more of a girly girl. You know, if I had been some little Butch thing, maybe so but, you know, it was easy for me to get to know people or not have them some kind of preconceived idea as to who I was until they got to know me and then I always outed myself. And you know, I know that even at work when people found out and then my coworker was very religious, and I'm a hugger. It used to hug everybody. But I'm going to ask permission now. That first time I ever hugged her she was, like, stiff and I knew then okay, this is not cool. Don't do that. Because you know, I had to consider how students feel and so but then after she got to know me, then she's jumping out of her chair coming over and giving me hugs. So you know. And now, I knew, you know. I know there were times like straight man would be like, want to know about the threesome thing?

 

ME: That still happens now.

 

MS: That kind of thing would go on but it's like I wanted to throw up. (inaudible) So yeah, but as far as me having that feeling? No.

 

ME: So it never, like, affected your job in the workplace or anything?

 

MS: I take that back. One time, I was afraid that someone would go to my boss. So the way I've remedies that was I just went to him and told him. And then he said, don't worry about it, he wouldn't understand why anybody was willing to do that in any way. But if they did, he would take care of it.  

 

BC: So where did you work?

 

MS: At the courthouse in the probate office  

 

BC: Did you like that?  

 

MS: Did I like working there? Well…I–it was a job.

 

ME: Yeah, I was about to say does anyone like their job, really?

 

MS: But you know it was great benefits. And it's a very conservative office…very. Yeah, that was, it was just I just wanted to make sure that nobody could do that. I'm gonna be out (inaudible).

 

BC: I'm glad that you felt safe enough to go to your boss and do that.

 

ME: Yeah. Yeah, so we do have a few questions about the AIDS epidemic, which we know is, like, kind of a heavy topic. So if you ever–if you don't want to answer some of these questions, or any of them, that's completely understandable. Just let us know. But could you tell us about what your experience was like during the AIDS crisis?

 

MS: The AIDS crisis, I lost friends. I think we all did back then. Yeah, that was–that was really…It was really sad. Because I would see these beautiful males that were friends of mine just deteriorate, you know, and them even being partners and having to watch one go before the other. Yeah.

 

ME: Yeah, that sounds really hard. Do you remember what it was like? When it first started in the beginning? Like, was there a lot of like, misinformation and fear like spreading around?

 

MS: I'm sure there was a lot of misinformation, I just wasn’t, uh…My closest friend, Roy, Steve and… I don't think they talked about it that much they were partnered with Ricky and Fred. And they were part of you know, it's just different groups of people. So, yeah, I don't think they discussed it. And unfortunately, when it first came out, didn't really play you know, like, my friend in San Francisco were getting bombarded and, you know, here, it was just it wasn't a huge part at first. So…

 

ME: how would you describe the quality of the health care for people suffering with AIDS at that time?  

 

Maria: Was there any?

 

ME: Was there any?

 

MS: Yeah, that's, you know…If you have AIDS, you deserve it, you know?

 

BC: So, when AIDS first started, were you still in Tuscaloosa? Or were you in another state?  

 

MS: Yeah.  

 

BC: Um, did–you were you in another state like around this time? Like, did you go somewhere else and see like the difference from how it was in Alabama

 

MS: No, I spent some time in California but that was many years later.  

 

ME: So um were there any places or organizations that were there to support the community during that time that you can remember?

 

MS: You know, back during then and what I did was work nine to five, raise my kids, and then on the weekends, it's hit the bars and (inaudible) and so and then there was Unity, I have to consider that and then was TLC. So I don't recall I'm sure there was plenty out there. I just didn't go deep into it.  

 

ME: Yeah, that’s understandable

 

BC: so these are kind of like the wrapping up questions. So is there anything that you would like for people to remember you by, or remember your story? What do you want your legacy to be?

 

ME: It's a loaded question.

 

Maria: It is. you know I hadn’t thought about it but I'm never come up with an answer. My daughter wants to have a tattoo (inaudible) something for me. I don’t know…put an Alabama A on there.

 

ME: Did your daughter spend time with you at the TLC?  

 

MS: Uh-huh!

 

ME: She went with you to meetings, like, frequently?

 

Maria: I wouldn't say frequently, but yes, she did go.

 

BC: And like,for the legacy question, I don't I don't think like people that we interview, realize how important they are to, like, us and our class, and like the future of our class, so if we can like hear from anybody. Like we would love that. So like, Y'all are really important to us for the future.  

 

ME: Yeah, seriously. Like, there's so many young queer people that talk about the work that you guys did. We might like–they might not know your names, exactly. But they know that you guys like made a difference. And it's to me especially it's been very valuable to meet you guys.

 

Maria: You know when you when you asked about was I fearful. You know, I can hide, you know, I'm white and a girl. And that like what about you as a black woman? How about you? Are you Fearful?

 

BC: Oh, I think I can hide too. Because I'm like, I'm mostly girly. So like, it's easier for me compared to like some of my friends there's just some

 

Maria: I would never neither one yeah I guess that what I'm saying as a black woman. Are you ever fearful?

 

BC: Oh, I mean, I will say yeah. Like, in America and how, like, everything is right now.  Very fearful, but it's more like black men that have it worse

 

ME: I also think like context like where you are, and like who you're with also can make a huge difference because that's probably like; how you said that you had that community and you were around those people so the fear wasn't as imminent like and I think a lot of other communities have that same thing where they don't feel as fearful if they surround themselves with people that understand them.

 

MS: *Inaudible* you know, it’s just sad out there…*inaudible* I did, and I'm thankful for the people that were before even my generation because my friend, Jerry, he's talked about–they tend not even dance on the dance floor without somebody–cops coming in, everybody got loaded up in the paddy wagon  and then I would–you know and I’m like *inaudible* It happened.

 

ME: Yeah, it did. And one last question. What would you tell your younger self looking back on your life now?  

MS: Life is good.

 

ME:Say that one more time?

 

MS: Life is good.

 

ME: Life is good?

 

MS: *laughter* it all works out.

 

ME: I like that philosophy, that’s a good philosophy.

 

BC: It is! Um…I actually have another question. It’s about the people–like, is there anybody else that you would like for us to get in touch with or hear from?

 

MS: I don't think that anyone–you know, you got to talk to Trish and Amanda. And Trisha and Amanda–they would suggest the same people that I would, the people that I am still friends with the same ones that were fearful. And don't, you know, they're still kind of closeted. And so I know… *inaudible*

 

ME: I'm trying to think of ways that we could share history, like, anonymously with people that are still scared to be outed and stuff. Because I feel like there is a way that we could do that.

 

BC: I know, we had like, the QR code.  

 

ME:Yeah.  

 

BC: And so that would be the best way, through social media.

 

ME: Yeah. Because like those are–everybody's stories important, you know? And I'd argue that it's, like, it's pretty valuable to get stories from people that you would see that think otherwise would never share it. So, I don’t know. But do you have anything else?

 

BC: So, your? wife do you think she would have anything else to add

 

MS: Oh, lord, no. *laughter* Y’all, she just doesn’t care. That’s everybody else's problem, and she didn’t even come out *inaudible* and then she didn’t have a choice! Cuz she just said it wasn’t anybody’s business who she was and who she was with, and, you know.

 

ME: You know what, that's fair. That is fair.

 

BC: It is.

 

31:37

So yeah, but she wasn't a part of TLC. You know that…

 

ME: How long have you two been together now?  

 

MS: It’ll be 10 years in…April.

 

ME: Awesome. Cool. Yeah. Yeah.

 

BC: So was it like–was it hard for y'all to get married? Or with the marriage laws, did y’all just like, go ahead.

MS: For us, it didn’t matter.

 

BC: Did y’all have to, like, second guess it or…

 

ME: Did you have to wait?

 

MS: We went to Florida. And you know, we had a nice wedding on the beach, and I did try to do it here. I know they were giving people a hard time up at the courthouse. So I just said *inaudible* and I didn’t want to be up there anyways, so. Go on up to Florida.