Marti Ball
Interviewee: Marti Ball
Interviewers: Chris Mullen, Lucian Sims, and Lyn Coupland-Lowery
Date: Nov 6, 2023
This is an oral history interview with Marti Ball, conducted Monday, November 6, 2023. This interview covers Ball’s experiences growing up in the south, her time as a student at The University of Alabama, and her career working in the Tuscaloosa Public Library, as they were affected and influenced by her queerness. The interviewers are Chris Mullen, Lucian Sims, and Lyn Coupland-Lowery.

00:00
LC: So our first question is what made you want to share your story with us? And how did you find out about *Motions arms to us three*

00:11
MB: I was grabbed at the pride festival, and, yeah, I don't mind talking about it, I figured. Amanda Coupland said that you're having your struggle to find people that will talk, so.

00:25
LC: Thank you very much. So, when did you know you were queer?

00:36
MB: When did I know? Probably not till I was 18 or 19. When did I accept it? Probably not until 20 or 25, 24 or 25, not 20 or 25. But it took me a while to finally accept that.

00:51
LC: And what was that experience like?

00:54
MB: I had a much better experience than most people had. But it was just it was more me battling with myself. I haven't had any really bad coming out stories. I don’t think I lost any friends or if I lost them, I didn't know it. It's been pretty, pretty okay, for me. Though, I was in a relationship when I found out that's how I found out and figured it out. And you know, it just kind of happened. I probably should have known earlier but it was just never something that that was, I thought was. It's not that it wasn't possible. I played a lot of sports and did a lot of things in high school so it just, my sexuality and just wasn't a question at that point. It wasn't till I got to college that I started kind of being around different people and questioning things.

01:55
LS: What did your community look like outside of your family whenever you came out?

02:02
MB: Definitely, I played basketball and softball Shelton. So I was in college, but I had a built in kind of friend group through that. And I played on a travel softball team during the summer with older people. So and some of them are queer. And so that's kind of how I developed, probably through sports.

02:23
LS: That’s really interesting.

02:31
CM: Would you want to change anything about how you came out, and why?

02:38
MB: No, I don’t think so. I think, I don't know how it would be today, when people are, I think a little bit more free to start exploring these things earlier. It might have been nice to know in high school, but I don't have any complaints about my high school experience. So, I don't think I would change anything, but I am sure it's easier for people now. Like they can at least accept it and start thinking about it. When I started dating, the woman I started dating I might not have been so quick to you know, grab hold and latch on to and could have played the field a little bit, well not exactly, just explored who I was a little bit more. So, I wouldn't say regret. But yeah, maybe it would be nice to know what it's like to come out in a society that's a little bit more accepting. But then, you know, while there are more options for the kids today, there's such a limelight on it right now that it's causing other issues. So, no. I'm going with no.

03:50
LC: What was your experience like at university? In college?

03:52
MB: Um, so the first two years when I was playing sports, it was, it was cool. When I went to Alabama I struggled but not because of being queer anything it was just so much bigger. And I'd stopped playing sports, like, in an organized fashion. I played intramurals but it took me a while to find my footing there. I think if I had to do it over again, I would try to find a smaller school. I can't imagine being out there now. We had 19,000, I think. It is overwhelming to even drive on campus at this point.

04:30
LC: It really is.

04:35
LS: So, you mentioned that you went to Shelton, Shelton State. How many years were you there for?
04:41
MB: Two and a half.

04:44
LS: What was your major? If I can ask it

04:46
MB: At Shelton? Drinking a lot. And playing sports. I didn't care about anything else at that point. I took a good majority of like, the basic classes there, but I really had no idea what I wanted to do. I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do when I graduated from Alabama either. And I'm still not sure. But here I am, so.

05:06
LC: So why did you become a librarian?

05:09
MB: So, I got my bachelor's in political science, there's not a whole lot to do that. I just thought it was interesting, political science and history. And I went to work for Verizon Wireless. And for an introvert, selling cell phones back then would have just about killed me. I didn't ever seek to be a librarian. You'll meet people here that, you know, you can just tell it's what they were meant to do. And they're fun to be around. But so, I took the GRE and did pretty well on it. It just happened that I knew a couple of people that were librarians and they're like, this is what you should do. And I was like, Okay, I'll do it.

05:50
LS: All right, cool. Do you like being a librarian?

05:54
MB: I do. I like our mission and what we do, it's kind of like the underdog all the time. And also, I have a master's in sports administration. So, I went back and thought about changing my life direction, but I have a kid and it was just not, I could not just start over in a different field at that point.

06:17
CM: Are you out at your job.

06:18
MB: I’m very.

06:19
CM: And as this caused any, like issues like in the workplace, or uh, stuff like that. Like some sort of conflict that’s come because of it?

06:31
MB: Not really, no. It’s a pretty accepting place.

06:34
LS: Have there been any good things?

06:40
MB: At work, specifically, I think having me around has shown people how normal gay people can be. My wife is pretty normal, I was in a pretty steady relationship, I have a kid, I have the same issues and problems that they do so. And, you know, I haven't hit on all of them. So they don't think I'm out to just, you know.

07:07
LS: I’ve had that conversation.

07:11
LC: What unique opportunities has being a librarian brought you? Like on your impact on Tuscaloosa, or just in general.

07:17
MB: I don’t know. Recently, it doesn't feel like any impact. But like, my library was the Weaver Bolden Branch, which is on the west side of town. And it's really, getting to work with populations that don't have as much as I had when I was growing up, it just keeps you really, really aware of how far we have to go as a community. And what families that don't have as much need. And the library is a place that we don't care who you are, where you live, or anything. You're welcome here. And I think that that's just, that's nice. I get to meet a lot of people, especially in my new position, which is cool. And we're free.

08:03
LC: What kind of resources does the library offer, and like, share for the community?

08:08
MB: Well, we have books. Right now we have a very solid e-material collection. But unfortunately, that may go away. In a couple of weeks. We will have, we're fixing the loose Libbi. I don't know if you know Libbi.

08:24
LC: I did know that that news was announced. I was like Mom, who do I write to?

08:30
MB: Unofficially, I can't say do that. But we have other digital resources, like I don’t know if you’ve used Hoopla.

08:40
LC: I have, yes.

08:41
MB: Then you know that we won't completely lose everything. And then we have LinkedIn learning. We have computer classes, like we have a little free yarn library now, which is pretty cool. So that people that are interested in crocheting or knitting and we have a knitting group that comes twice a week. Storytimes, there's, like, every Tuesday, families come in with like their toddlers and play little games downstairs. I'm not the kid's librarian. But today, like we're close today, but we have two groups going out to the magnet school. One to do a storytime with younger kids one to do, the fellow who just walked past, he'll do something robotic, or STEM based, with the older kids. Then our bookmobiles going out to Vance. So, like any day of the week, we are all across the community. And we hope that we can continue that. And, um, the bigger events like the Hispanic festival, we've developed a really strong relationship with the Latino coalition in Tuscaloosa. So we do a lot with Hispanic community. I'm sure that's not all but.

09:58
LS: So you've mentioned a lot of community base things. Have you seen the growth over the years that you've been here?

10:11
MB: Growth in acceptance, or thought process?

10:17
LS: I’d say both?

10:18
MB: This is gonna be a complicated answer. Because the answer is yes, but then no. Because I know plenty of people that I grew up with that thought in one direction that have completely changed like, in, are more accepting, but then, you know, I have a father that is a 78 year old white man. And he's grown. But it's not enough. And there are a lot of him in Tuscaloosa. So there's still a very strong base in Tuscaloosa that have a long way to go. And I don't know how you change them, without them dying off, unfortunately. And then the next, you know, that hopefully everything and what's going on now plays itself out, and we get back in the right direction. So, lots of growth, but lots of still stuck in the 50s and 60s. Unfortunately. I'm, working at the library, I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of like minded people that have open minds and are willing to have productive conversations about things.

11:28
LS: I notice, like whenever I come in. I don't come in often anymore. But y'all, every time I see like y'all interact with each other, it's just like, it reminds me almost of like, siblings. Walking in, and like, there's a young lady, and a younger gentleman at the front. And they're just like bantering with each other. And I'm like, I love that.

11:50
MB: I think for the most part, we all love working here. And as frustrated as we are right now, and we're pretty frustrated, I think it makes you, I don’t know. I saw TikTok that talked about being, something about trauma, and working in how you become closer to people who, when you go through trauma. And this is not serious trauma. But we're all going through it, and we're all overworked and tired, but love what we do. So we don't want to stop. I don’t know if it's a good cycle to be in, but that's where we are. And you learn to trust the people you're with, because they know what you're doing. Trauma bonding, that's what it was.

12:39
CM: What would you like to see for Tuscaloosa Public Libraries in the future? Like, is there anything that like with his workplace that you wish, like would change, or that they do differently?

12:48
MB: I don't think we can change much until we have more money. Right now we are doing everything we can do. For a city, or county our size, we should have four or five branches out in the community. We're trying to kind of fill that gap with buying book vending machines. And we plan on buying two or three more in the next year and putting them in different corners of the county. But a family from Samantha isn't going to drive 45 minutes to the library just to get a book, or to come to a program. So we're missing a lot of people. And it's hard to do that without staff, and you know, funds to run a library.

13:37
LC: Has your library dealt with attempts to ban books?

13:41
MB: I don't think we've had it as rough as other places in the state of Alabama. But on the whole, there have been things going on at the state level that will indirectly affect us. So I'm not sure where that will go at this point. Prior to that, I've been here 10 years and we probably had three books that were. We have a form that you fill out that were sent to the committee with questions about them. So it's not something we deal with often but because of everything that's going on, we are indirectly dealing with it, so.

14:20
LC: Can I ask which books?

14:22
MB: The only one I know, we actually took out of the collection. And it was because it was a book about, it was a book about a Mexican cowboy, and it just had language. So it was actually banned because of the language in it that was not accepted anymore. So that's the only one I remember. What happens is they'll fill out a form and the collection develop manager will create a committee and everybody will kind of look at the book and see if it still belongs, and that book was very old, so it really it needed to come out. And that happens. At my previous library, you would find every now and then because the collection wasn’t quite as new as we have here books with the word Negro in it in the wrong context. And you know, those books need to come out, you just can miss them sometimes when you're weeding.

15:24
 LS: Have you-I don’t know how to put this sorry...witness, Sorry. So, you...you’ve mentioned that this space here, Tuscaloosa Public Library, is very inclusive. Do y’all have any, like, inclusive, queer inclusive, spaces? Like, the whole place is supposed to be queer, inclusive, but we don't have anything that specifically caters to the community.
MB: Like...the whole place is supposed to be Queer inclusive, but we don’t have anything that specifically caters to the community
15:53
LC: Would you like to have something?
15:57
MB: Sure! Would..uh..would like to do a book club throughout the city that’s just with Queer material But..uh..I don’t see it happening right this second because of the environment. Do you try to fly under the radar for a second to keep the stuff that you have on the shelf on the shelf? Or do you risk going too far and losing it all? And those are the questions we ask every day because right now we have a very solid collection, especially with young adult material that has clear characters. And we don't want to lose it. And we don't want people to lose access to it at all. So we struggle with that. And generally, I will step back from the fights and let them have those conversations. So they can work their way around to something they're comfortable with. I am pretty sure I'm not the only queer person here, but I'm the one that is most out. So it's, it's a difficult situation to be in even before all the book bands and everything as you watch the library kind of grow and become more accepting. And it's something like when my father that I mentioned earlier, you want them to grow, but you don't want to push them to the point where they start refusing to grow...and uh..that’s just difficult...y’know? It sucks.
17:36
CM: you asked the last question I'll ask this one are there any uhm would say are essential someone who's trying to do you know like if someone said hey, I wanted to learn more about the queer community would you be able to-
17:49
MB: No, no, it would have to be somebody upstairs and they would know like in the young adult, the reference section, especially about nonfiction stuff. There are books that I've read that I would recommend people that have queer characters, but I probably couldn't tell you any of the titles, right, the second except heartstopper. I would you recommend that. But like, when I'm going through hoopla, which is where I get most of my material now I will look for books with queer stories and stuff like that most of them are fiction, and most of them are young adult. I just enjoy young adult more. It's not because I’m not an adult or...but IM sure there is adult material.
18:29
LS: I feel like young adult books just allow us to hold on to the nostalgia of like freedom we had as a child or as a teen really. Would you like there to be a like, let's say everything in the world gets better. And you guys have the funds and the staff? Would you like there to be a basically clear. A bigger clear selection here.

19:01
MB: I actually think our selection is pretty solid. Just need more material. There's probably things that we've missed. But it's not because we're not trying to find what we need. We did some, we've done some number crunching and just based on population and representation, we're at a pretty good place

19:21
LC: When was the like collection established or like when were you able to start like getting queer books or if it just always like
19:31
MB: I think... in all honesty, queer books weren't written as current as the same for African Americans, or black people. You didn't see a whole lot of material that was coming out with black faces on the cover. And then all of a sudden it changed and they were everywhere. And then at first some of it wasn't great material. But then that started improving as people got published more and more. Is this kind of the same way that was slow but then it just exploded and I mean, there's tons of material out there now.
20:08
CM: Are you religious?
20:10
MB: No. Did you wanna ask me more or-
20:14
CM: no I'm just trying to rephrase it because, um, it's always kind of tough to ask people, you know, that's very personal, would you say, um, you know, growing up and being queer, do you think that like, skewed away from religion, or it was just your household?
20:27
MB: I did go to church a while we were members of a church. We did not go a lot. And I began to question the whole validity of the religion that is primarily here pretty early in the way that I watched. Some people who claim to be very strong Christians interact with other people. And I went to a very small private school. Everybody there was very conservative. And even though I wasn't aware of my identity at that point, I knew that I didn't agree with how they thought about most, and was even pretty vocal about it for that school. But not think that crosses over into religion, I'm pretty sure Jesus was a rad dude. But I'm also pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with the way some of the things have developed.
21:27
CM: absolutely

21:28
LS: So fun question, well actually, I don't know if it's fun question. But we have a question about like, healthcare. If you remember healthcare as like, before you were out versus like, before when you were out? Has it changed in any like, any way?
21:45
MB: I don’t think so. I'm pretty fortunate with that, as well. My primary doctor knows. And when I was with that former person he's helped both of us and knew we were together knew we had a kid. And like, even when I was in, I guess when I was close to 30, I went to a, my gynecologist, and they're at that point, I was in Birmingham. And was looking into doing artificial insemination at that point. And she was like, I can't do it here because it was at St. Vincent's, because, but I will get you to the person that you need to talk to. So as Ben, she was very understanding, and it was a very good experience. I have heard stories of people that have had terrible experiences, and it sucks.
22:42
LC: Have you heard -
22:43
LS: I was going to ask-we were going to ask you about your kid. Because you keep mentioning that and that makes me really happy. Is- I don't have a way to put this-is, was this child adopted? Or can I ask?
23:03
MB: It was artificial insemination. And my partner. She and I were together for 13 years. It's her biological child. I came into the picture when he was two here. And he was with me now. He's my kid. No doubt. He's a pain in the ass. Sorry. Yeah, it wasn't artificial insemination happen on the first shot. And not done in a hospital. I don't know if that's bad or good notes and find a friend and you get lucky, I guess, I guess easier.
23:29
LC: That’s how I exist, so really cool.
23:40
MB: really? Cool
23:44
CM: I know you mentioned that you've had good experiences in the medical with healthcare. But in your experiences, like, as a parent of a child, have you had to deal with any sort of, like homophobia or anti queer like stuff with parenting?
23:59
MB: Definitely, that’s why he’s at a private school now. Never ever came out and said it. But in first grade, he had a teacher that I was pretty sure did not like us and wouldn't communicate with us. And we heard things that she said, through the grapevine that were enough to make us not want to be there. And to be honest, we had great experience with other teachers. But the chance of him getting in a classroom again with somebody that might make him feel bad about who he was was too much for us to handle at that point. So we did a school that's the most accepting school in Tuscaloosa.
24:38
CM: I’m sorry about that experience.
24:40
MB: ah well y’know she sucks. It sucks. She was she had a lot to deal with. Not not as a teacher just you could tell she wasn't happy in life.
24:41
CM: Wanted to make other people feel bad too?
24:42
MB: yes, yeah
24:59
LC: Okay. So we have gone through our list of questions, but is there anything else that you want to share you think is relevant to the history that we're-
25:12
MB: So you say that you’re a product of-?
25:13
LC: I am. Yes. I'm Amanda Coupland’s child actually. So yeah.
25:27
MB: Okay. Cool. Cool. Knowing I do yes. So yeah. Cool. Did not know that. Any. Do you have any thoughts about the way you grew up?
25:36
LC: I don't know. I love my family. Yeah. I also, like, went to a school that was safer. Yeah. I, my parents shielded me from a lot of things that happened, like, I know that they had experiences and like we had experiences that I was not aware of that happened at the time. I did have some friends, their parents, like take them out of school when they found out about my family. But that was really like, it wasn't the school itself ever. So

26:12
MB: I think that it's I think one of the things I fear with Aiden is that I've shielded him too much from the realities of the world, and even the Capitol school, that they shield him from the realities of the world.
26:27
LC: That’s something that my parents were also worried about. And they did talk to be about but like, so far, I've been okay, so.
26:36
LC: Is there anything? Sorry, Is there anything that you would like to tell like the younger generation software people coming like out in Tuscaloosa, but any advice for them?

26:49
MB: Uh...my advice would be to get out of Tuscaloosa and see how the rest of the world is. Especially outta the South, A lot. It's really weird. You grew up here and you live here your whole life, you develop this love hate relationship. There are so many good people here. And so many positive things about Tuscaloosa, but just the a lot of reporters, so I can't say off the record. But just even dealing with like the government entities that we have to deal with here is so frustrating and UCL stuck some aspects of Tuscaloosa. It would be even if you come back, I wish that I had gotten out and move somewhere different. I can't complain about any of my relationships, except for one. But like, especially early on, they didn't really good people. But it would have been nice to be in a more accepting community. Because even though I was surrounded by people that accepted me, you always kind of know in the back of your head that you have to be careful. So like, just go in somewhere where it's just accepting would have been would have been pretty cool. Not now, my younger days.
28:02
LS: Do you have any questions for us?
28:05
MB: No. I think it's pretty cool. I'm sorry, y'all are having a hard time getting people. But we've tried to do oral histories for different things here. And just in general, it's hard to get people to sit down and talk. A lot of it's very personal. You know, my former partner, one of the reasons I was scared to get married was the stuff that's happening now. But what I've found is that I'm more willing to be out now, just to kind of say, Screw y'all. And if you come kill me, come kill me. That sounds a little overdramatic. But
28:06
LS: I understand.
28:43
MB: Like, I can see pictures of just the similarities between this and Hitler and the Holocaust. It's just, it's amazing to me that people aren't making those connections at this point,
28:54
LS: which, when you like, try to like say, hey, these connections are happening. They're like, Nuh uh
28:59
MB: we would never do that. But this is how it happens. It doesn't just happen overnight. And it always scared me to have my name. Like just registered in any form as identifying who I am, but said I've done more things since Jess and I broke up to be out in the open than I did while we were together. I don't know if she's called me out on that a little bit. But part of it is that I don't want to stay completely silent. I'm pretty, pretty introverted most of the time. But you know, I wish like even the pride organization and all the things that are going on in Tuscaloosa had been around when I was younger, just so you saw other people and more people because the community definitely bigger now because more people are comfortable coming out and more people are willing to explore these aspects of their life and figure out who they are but you know, I don't know if that was an answer your question.
29:50
LS: Thank you.
30:04
LC: Um, when you so when you were at UAE and just as like a queer person living in Tuscaloosa Did you ever go to like Michaels or any of the downtown queer areas?
30:13
MB: That- you know what Michael’s is?
30:14
LC: We do.
30:15
MB: Oh cool.
30:17
CM: Michael’s yep that's the one. We've had a lot of posters.
30:20
MB: The person that I was dating at that point in my life was a bouncer at Michaels. So I was not super comfortable going out there at that point, because I wasn't ready to come out to my parents, I didn't come out to my parents till she and I broke up. Because I couldn't deal with it. But yeah, her one of her best friends at that point, who was related to Jasmine, who was one of the drag queens with her NOF. And then the person that owned it for a little while was one of our friends. It was, you know, icon, it's fun. It's just so small. It's just so small.
31:12
MB: very much always when I walk in there, I feel like I'm the oldest person in the universe. So I've had to do a lot more since I've been on the board in there. And it's just makes me feel like I'm glad it's there. But I wish there were more options that were

31:34
LS: did you go to any other queer inclusive spot?

31:39
MB: That wasn't a bar? No, there was what's now I was in seventh and Birmingham. I went to that point in my life, but not really. one thing and one thing I'm trying to change about myself is that when I get partnered up with somebody, I don't tend to do a lot of those things that I focus primarily on the relationship. And I think- I don't know if it's still the same with younger people. But the lesbian community sometimes has drama. And there's a real, especially when Aiden came in the picture a sense to kind of withdrawal and protect my family from people that were still doing things that I had moved past like drinking a lot and Going out a lot. I don't know that I would have done that the same way. I think I would have tried to find ways to be more out as a family and more people that were like us, because I do think they exist, you just you don't always know where they are. And there's more now than there ever was before. I mean,

32:45
LS: I'm pretty sure- *indistinguishable audio* sorry. I'm pretty sure most of our class is under the queer umbrella.

32:53
MB: And that's awesome that you have a class it's just about this. It's pretty cool!

32:59
LC: It’s the only one that exists as far as we're aware.

33:03
LS: In the south, at least.

33:05
LC: In the south, definitely.

33:06
LS: Texas doesn't have anything like this.

33:07
MB: Are you from Texas? I was talking to my sister in law last night, and my nephew is at Troy. He wants to do an internship with Dell, their headquarters in Texas and like going from one bad to another bad.

33:26
LS: Yeah- That’s How I felt moving up here.

33:29
MB: Why did you choose to move out here?

33:31
LS: Um, well, my bio dad is from here. And then my mom's family is from here. And she just wanted to be closer to her dad.

33:40
MB: So did you grow up here?

33:41
LS: No, I grew up, I was born and raised in Texas, but I was about 16, and my mom just decided one day that we were going to pack up everything and leave. And then I came here.

33:57
MB: Where are you from?

33:58
CM: I’m from Massachusetts.

34:01
MB: Okay, what made you choose to come to Alabama?

34:05
CM: I wanted to go to a big party school and this is the first alphabetically on the list. It worked out.

34:13
MB: I like the honesty, too. You know, it's not all bad. I know that, and it's a big school.

34:21
CM: Oh, it’s huge school.

34:22
MB: Lots of things to get involved in. But it took me like, even being sort of athletic. It took me a while to even get in to playing in intramural and stuff out here because it was just there was so big at that point to me.

34:36
CM: That's why, that's why I was lucky to get on board day stuff. It's really good, just to like join a club.

34:45
MB: They may have had that when I was there. I don't know.

34:49
CM: It's always big stuff. It's always good to have like, you know the community in spots like that.

34:55
MB: Yeah. Do y’all feel, what do y'all think about Tuscaloosa in general?

34:59
CM: It’s interesting.

35:01
LS: Well, this was actually my second ever pride being out. So that was really interesting. And it's also completely different, because I'm a trans guy, but I present like very feminine, because I'm comfortable in my gender that way. And it's kind of weird walking around the campus, because like, you'll see some of your friends that know. And then you'll see like, Guys, and they'll try to hit on you and you're like, hahaha not what you think. Within there's like some people who are just open right out the gate.

35:36
MB: Yeah. You say it's interesting. What does that mean?

35:38
CM: The south? I mean, just the south in general, like, I'm from, like the most northern state, you can be from- Southern people. They are very, very nice. But they're just very difficult, like way of like, like Politeness. Like, I'd say, like, like, the North around from being polite is not speaking to somebody and leave somebody alone in the south, like, it's best a rude thing- you have to come up and like, talk to somebody in the south. So that's like, you guys are very friendly. And that's interesting. It's nice.

36:07
MB: Do you feel like it's always genuine?

33:09
CM: No, definitely not. It didn’t feel genuine in the beginning. I felt like huh?

36:14
MB: It’s almost like an expectation placed on you as a child that you'd have to get over.

36:19
LS: I really think that's like what it is. The older people are, like, my grandparents raised, kind of like semi raised me. And they're always like, you have to do this, this and this. And they're from a small town in Texas that only had like, 100 people. Yeah, so we can all imagine what I was told as a child.

36:40
MB: Even though Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. I can't break myself out of it. I have tried. My kid. That's one thing he does well, so I'm very polite, if anything, but I can see the problems with it at this point. But it's very hard when you've been doing something for 46 years to stop, especially when you - You mean it as a sign of respect. And it's hard to get in your mind that not everybody takes it.

37:06
LC: And then there are also people who when you don't do it, they get upset with you.
Marit: It's hard to know.

37:12
LS: I just need everyone to come with like a five second trailer of what you want me to say.

37:18
MB: Just wear it around on our head like those things and you can just read it and watch it.

37:26
LS: I feel like that's better for like introverts

37:29
MB: Being an introvert down here is hard. You've learned to grow out of it a little bit I've had to learn to, to become a little bit more extroverted, especially here. these for my choices, not everybody asked me.

37:46
LS: Do you like the fact that you had to like become a little bit more extroverted?

37:52
MB: Yeah, when - I am in therapy. Like, when I date somebody, I tend to become more introverted to take to inter like the last person I dated is very introverted. And I kind of just went along with her life and tried to make it easier if I'm around extroverted people are more extroverted and I like being around extroverts, but also like going home and not talking. So…

38:16
LS: Thats my kind of life right there.

38:18
MB: There's a lot of extroverts here. The children's librarians are extremely extroverted. They're very talented and fun to be around?

38:35
LC: Do you have any closing thoughts thinking what to do?

38:39
CM: When you when you were a student you were going out to Michael's or wherever did you feel safe? In going out now because you're a woman or because of your sexuality?

38:51
MB: No. My sexuality. when going in the bar, I can still remember even in my later 20s looking around for people to see what was around. And just being very aware of the surroundings. once you got in there- I don't think I've felt as unsafe, but like outside of it. I've never felt safe I would make sure I went to my car directly. Yeah. It wasn't never it was always a hate thing. Not the surroundings weren't safe it was who's going to be driving through and yell something stupid out of their car or something like that.

39:31
CM: Would that be a common thing to happen for like people to go into Michael's?

39:36
MB: I don't remember it ever. I think most people-it wasn't. I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation in the last couple of weeks like it was where the parking deck is. So it wasn't directly downtown and downtown was not near as happening as it is now. So you would have had to go out of your way to drive by it. But definitely, there was no, I'm a lot more secure in who I am now. And willing to just flip somebody off than I was at that point, I was still scared about a whole lot of things.

40:16
LC: There were so like with- in the past with Michael is and like the the queer bookstore that used to be here and like all the other queer spaces that existed before, like, being queer positive was the more like, regular occurrence and more common sentiment, like, I don't know, it feels like we had a lot of spaces or a few spaces before people were able to, like safely be out, and now that like sometimes you are able to safely be out. There's no spaces in Tuscaloosa for queer people to exist. And do you think that libraries could accommodate for that? Like, do you think that's something that like, realistically, if there were there was like a queer book club or like something like that? Or do you think that that's something that like, we people would need to turn else where for?

41:03
MB: I think in a like a really good world? Yes, the library would be providing some of that. I don't know how feasible it is right this second. And I don't I don't know how many people would come. I do see people that I assume are queer in here quite a bit. But you also can't go up to them and say, Do you wanna? You can’t just stereotype them. I don't know. But it needs- you're right, there is nowhere to go except icon that I know of.

41:39
LS: Yeah- I think like the nearest ones in birimingham?

41:42
MB: You gotta try to create your own spaces. And I do think that's one of the things that the pride board has tried to focus on this year is having more events and stuff that are queer friendly. But that's not consistent and always doesn't include. We added. We've done more things with families, but we still get a lot of younger people, not older lesbians or older gay people. So it's a good question. I have a board meeting tonight? I'll bring it up.

42:15
LS: Would you like there to be more places like Michaels? And I think it was called like the Black Orchid.

42:21
MB: There was the black orchid.

42:24
LS: Yeah, I think that was one of them. And then like all those other all of the older queer spaces that no longer are here in Tuscaloosa, so would you like for them to either make a return or like, similar things to come back?

42:40
MB: Yeah. I mean, it would be cool. I think, also, like, I don't know, I don't have enough time to do a lot of things. But I think there are more spaces in Tuscaloosa to feel safe, that aren't that don't specify this as a queer space. You are welcome here.

43:01
LC: I feel like the because I participate in like the teen tech program here and like the Writers Workshop growing up, and like that is very much where I met my first other queer people besides my family. And I don't know. I feel like that's where a lot of youth like that's the one place that they have. And even though it's not like specifically queer, they're still able to like find that here.

43:23
MB: Thank you for bringing that experience up. Because we have done away with a lot of team programming here.

43:27
LC: I like, I loved having that.

43:29
MB: Who were you with? Rosie? Or?

42:32
LC: I did have Rosie. And I know Miss Tiffany. Yeah. I had Alaina as well, who did the writers workshop beforehand, and she was wonderful.

43:40
MB: Yeah, those are. We haven't- because we are short staffed. We have had to make decisions to cut things because of staffing and Hunter goes out on our students. Hunter the new them- goes out in the schools a lot more than Rosie and Tiffany ever did. But I know when Rosie and Tiffany were at their prime, they had 30- 30 kids in there at times. We did a lot of cool stuff. The lock-ins were a lot of fun.

44:09
LC: I was here for two of those.

44:11
MB: It was we would do stuff that again but we don't have the staff and we're draining the staff. like the Book-tacular we had two weeks ago I mean you it takes days to recover from doing something like that and when you don't when you're short staffed. You just have to make cut in itself. But when you write a letter include that. But I didn't tell you to write a letter-

44:46
LS: I thinking of like an Off The Record question- cause I have one.

44:56
LC: Are we are we good for interview?

44:59
CM: I was just opening the backpack but I mean, I'm trying to say anything else that we need to touch on that we haven't.

45:05
LC: I think we’re okay, I looked at the blog requirements and I think we've done it

45:09
CM: before we go there is a form. we should have brought I’m sorry, we didn't, but there's like a form that just the consent forms from earlier, and then we'll email to you as soon as possible. Takes like three seconds.

45:22
ALL: Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you very much.