Maddy
Okay, so I’m Maddy

Christian
And I’m Christian

Maddy
And we’re really excited to be here with you, how are you doing?

Tricia
I’m good, I’m good

Maddy
So, what is your name and where are you from?

Tricia
I’m–officially I’m Patricia Lowery but I go by Tricia, um…I’m not–I was born in Tuscaloosa, uh, way back when, but, uh, I did not grow up here. I’m an army brat, so
I’ve lived all over the world. Um, I came back here, for good, in, uh…late 80’s? Um, so…and then–well, really, officially, in ‘91 is when I completely settled down, and, um, I’ve been here ever since.

Maddy
Okay, so, how would you describe your upbringing?

Tricia
I’m an army brat (laughter). So, um…not traditional in any way, um…I was…even though I was born in the south, I don’t have that southern idealism or, um, all of those negative components that came into it. I was brought up to believe that everybody was um…should be treated equal. Um, my parents…they were…definitely non-traditional. Um, my dad was in the army, and he was career military, and so we moved every six months to two years, so I–every six months to two years, I was making friends, in a completely different type of situation, so I’ve had…a whole gamut of friends, um. But what that means is I don’t have any of those long-lasting, early childhood friendships that most people do. Um, and for a while that bothered me, but now not so much. You know, I finally was able to let go of not having that, and looking at what I went through and what I did growing up has been amazing. Because I saw more in my first 26 years than most people see in a whole lifetime. So, it’s very non-traditional.

Maddy
So, at what point did you begin noticing your sexuality?
Tricia
Um...being...when I would, my extended family is here in Tuscaloosa, or in the south. And so every summer I would come, not every summer, but a lot of summers I would come back and stay with my grandparents and cousins and whatnot. Um, and they would take me to a Pentecostal Church and as you, as I'm sure, you know, Pentecostals are very strict and very anti LGBT. And so that was the only religion that I had, we didn't go to church when the only church I had was when I was here. And so that was what was ingrained in me. Um, and so when I first quote started thinking in terms of sexuality, um, I had people around me, especially when I came back here, it was like, oh, you know, if you have a child that turns out to be gay, you have to disown them and you know, yada yada yada. And so I didn't really think in those terms too much um, at the beginning, and then I realized when people would say that to me, I would get really negative about it and go, well then you're just stupid, you know? (laughter) Um, so I knew there was something in me, um because I didn't like that. Um, but it wasn't until I actually fell in love with somebody that I went, oh wow, okay. And it was eye opening for me. You know, it wasn't something that I mean literally it blew me away because I was completely blindsided and I went, oh, wow. And I never looked back, it was just like, okay, this fits. Um, that relationship did not last, not because I didn't want to–broke my heart, actually. Um, but it was the turning point for me, and it really let me know who I really was.
Maddy
Amazing. What were your–what thoughts did your family express about the community in your childhood? About the LGBT, I guess that would be your extended family.
Tricia
My extended family was very negative. Never really had the conversation with my immediate family. Um, I don't remember anything negative. Um...we would have many diverse people come to the house, you know, whether or not any of them were gay, um, or fit in any kind of of external thoughts or idealism, I don't know. Um, but nothing was ever negative towards other people. Um, but that's just my core family, you know, my extended family is a completely different situation.
Maddy
Right, so, I guess the next question kind of goes with that, were there any openly gay people in your hometown growing up? And I guess you could talk about both when you travel to all these different places that you lived and also coming back to Tuscaloosa.
Tricia
Um...I remember people who were–mostly those who were gay, um, male. Remember some of them in my life, um, friends like from school or something. And I go, oh yeah, you know, but it was never…never thought about it. You know, it wasn't something that we even talked about, in either a positive or a negative way. It just was. Um, but with my extended family and people in the south in general, uh, it was always negative.
Christian
Yeah. Okay. So, um, if when you came out, did you ever notice any like, changes, especially in immediate family, cause they seem…really chill about it. And like, friends, in terms of…just like…
Tricia
Well, when I came out, when I had this first experience, um, it was somebody that I was actually, um…we were employed at the same company. Um, she was much higher up in the company than I was. Um, and there was extreme negativity. I mean, we were talked about and it was not a pleasant environment. Um...when she broke off the relationship and I was really affected by that. Um, I had to eventually–I mean, I lost a lot of weight, you know, it was very negative for me. Um, my mother became very, um, concerned about it. My mother and dad, they divorced and so my mother came back here and that's how I ended up back here. Um, so I had to have that conversation with my mom, and mother was...she was not happy. She wasn't really negative, it was just like..I really don't want to see it. Um, but I lived in the same house as her and she walked in on me and, um, just really just a friend, but we were kind of cuddled up together, but there was nothing going on. Um, we were watching TV, uh, I had an apartment downstairs and she just happened to walk into the living room and we were sitting there watching TV, and mother immediately, she just kind of froze and then turned around and went out, you know, and she was going–the next day I think is when she said just not in my house, and I said…no you have to accept me for who I am. Um, and, she–she did come around to the point where just don't tell mama and papa, you know, just don't tell anybody else, it's fine, just don't tell anybody. Um, I didn't come out to my dad…until many years later. Um, with him being military, and we have never had a conversation, never had any kind of situation. Um, I just didn't know how that was going to go, and my dad and I had always been extremely close and I didn't want anything to affect that. Did that answer your question?
Christian
Oh, yes ma’am.
Tricia
Okay, sometimes I get sidetracked (laughter).

Christian
No, you’re okay…and sorry about, you know, I mean that's that's rough.
Tricia
Yeah…
Christian
So, sorry to hear that. Um, So, kind of, what was your initial experience with, like, the gay and the LGBT community as a whole, after like, terms with everything?
Tricia
Um now, once, um, Teresa and I broke up–I–by then I had friends that I had started communicating with and talking to, and they were all going, you gotta go out, you gotta go out. So we went to Michael's, I don't know if y’all have heard about Michael's. Michael's was a bar that is now where government plaza is. It was gay bar owned by, um, Tommy. He ran it, Michael, his dad bought it for him and his mother and dad ran it and then Tommy was, um…they gave it to Tommy, for him. And so that was my first experience first, you know, I've never been to a gay bar before. Somebody took me in there and it was just like, oh, wow, okay, this is kind of cool, you know? And so I ended up with a lot of friends who–who helped me transition into, not really the lifestyle, but just the community itself. Um, and from there, it just kinda skyrocketed…
Christian
Yes ma’am. Ok, and like what's your family like now? I mean, I know you have a kid, but like do you have a partner as well?
Tricia
I do. Uh Amanda. Amanda and I actually met at Michael's um I guess about eight months after Teresa and I split up um when she first walked in the bar, I immediately noticed her, she walked in with like two other people and um she was what we consider a baby dyke, I don't know if you've heard that term yet or if you know about baby dykes, um she was very much a baby dyke and um ... but my first thought was she's too short, yeah, she's shorter than me. Um so I didn't really consider her to begin with and um then a couple of months later, I got to know in a lot of people at Michael's, that was the only place we knew to go and so we would go there on the weekends and um I got to know a lot of people and a lot of them were her friends and so we got to talking and you know, socializing and then she asked me out and that was 31 years ago, almost…. Yeah 31, 31 years ago. So um yeah, and we've been together ever since um We have two kids, Lynn is the oldest, she, they are 18, Yeah, 18. And um their younger sister, Emily is 16, will be 17 next month. ...
Christian
Okay. And so when you were like starting a family having kids and all as a lesbian, I mean, especially back then, how was that?
Tricia
*laughs* um, you know, when we first got together, Amanda hated kids. You know, I just knew there was no way we were gonna have kids and for years she hated kids, she didn't like to be in restaurants with kids and so I thought okay but as I got older I kept thinking you know, I always wanted kids and as I got older I was like I really want kids and I thought if I don't say something I'm gonna get too old because I was already in the thirties and um I just thought I'm just gonna say it and so one day I just 13:56 budget, you know, and I said what do you think about having kids? She was like okay, I said I man if I had known it was gonna be that easy, we would have done it sooner, you know? Um and so we looked at all the options, you know the um uh huh adoption versus having one and if we had one what would that look like? And I thought you know, for for years I always thought it was gonna be so expensive, IVF is so expensive, I didn't know there was something called an I U I and um so I just started calling around and I called the different places um and everybody told me uh if you want to have a kid and you're a lesbian or a lesbian couple, you have to go through Steinkampf, Dr. Steinkampf and no matter where I called everybody sent me to Dr.Steinkampf, so I thought okay, this is where I go, so Dr.Steinkampf was at the Kirkland clinic in Birmingham. And so we went and had a consultation and it was so cheap. It was only, a lot of it was covered by insurance um and it only cost $500 a try. Um, which I thought it was gonna cost $20,000 to try. Um but IUI was so much less and that includes, you can buy sperm from an outside organization or you could use them and they had what was called a closed list where all we got was physical traits and so they gave us a sheet of paper that had some physical traits and we can choose from them, it was gonna be closed. Um So we wouldn't know anything but if there was a medical issue we could petition to have medical information. Um And all of the donors had to have at least had two successful Children with no medical issues. So okay so we looked at Amanda and said okay she's got red hair, we really wanted somebody taller so we looked at height *laughs*. Um she's got hazel eyes. So we were looking at hazel you know and so we were looking at these characteristics and we chose somebody and um it was within a month from the time that we decided to have kids to the time I had my first IUI um was very short and it was fast and so Amanda works at Mercedes and she's an engineer at Mercedes. And she was going to Germany all the time. And just so happened, it happened when it was time for her to be in Germany. And so we talked about whether or not we should wait a month or whatever and she was going no go ahead, so my mom actually took me and so my mother was there with me when I had my first IUI. And it took on the first session the first time I was very fertile. Um And we got pregnant and it was november the third and at christmas told my dad and step mom they were so excited. Um And then in January Joshua died. So um that ended up with a spiral. A lot of things happened, a lot of bad things happened because of that loss. Um My body did not um accept the loss and so I had to go through a lot physically and um it wasn't until July of the following year that I was able to try again. Um took on the second try, on July 17 and that's what we call Opie Day. I didn't tell y'all, when we were trying to decide what to call Amanda, I was mom. Amanda is not a mother, she is very butch and very she's just not a mom, she's not a mama, she's not a mommy, she's not anything related to mom and so we were trying to figure out what to call her. And she came home one day and she said what you think about Opie and I said oh b you know I thought she said Obie and I was going obie and she said OP - other parent and I was like perfect, it just fit. And so um so July 17th is now, you know we have mother's day, father's day, well none of those fit for her. So we chose Opie Day. So we have Opie Day on July 17th which was the day I was inseminated with with Lynn. Um And Lynn was born the following year and then ... I wanted to have my kids close together but again my body didn't do well with my first um delivery. So um it took us longer and so the week of Lynn's first birthday, we got pregnant with Emily and Emily came in December of the following year. So yeah, did I answer your question?
Christian & Maddy
Oh yes
Tricia
Don’t remember what the question was
Christian
That was great
Maddy
Amazing
Tricia
Yeah
19:50
Maddy
Good. Okay so now religion? So you talked about the Pentecostal going there with your grandparent’s other family. So what was that earliest memory of religion, like maybe the first time that you had clicked? Like what they were talking about. As far as being gay about- Anything just like your earliest memory with that.
Tricia
Uhh probably middle school. I remember going and Pentecostal, I don't know if you've ever been to a Pentecostal service but they can get wild. Umm So ... I don't know it just was um very um hail and damnation um very negative, It wasn't about, and, and still to this day, it's what you can't do, not, not about ... what's really important when it comes to being a christian and being a part of that community, um you can't wear, you can't wear pants, you can't wear makeup, can't wear jewelry, you can't cut your hair, you can't, you know, it's very Holiness related, put your hair up in a beehive, you know, and all this kind of stuff. And so that was my upbringing, as far as religion goes, but again, that was all I had, and that was just in the summer, and so it's very short lived. Um, and so when I would go home wherever home was at that time, um, it would be, you know, we just didn't go to church, we didn't think about it, we didn't, you know, it just wasn't. And the reason being is my dad, it was drilled into him growing up, you know, you will go to church, you will do this, you know, and you can't do all of these things, and so when daddy left, it was like,he just cut it off, he didn't want to have anything to do with religion and church.
Maddy
So what is your relationship with faith now doesn't have to be Pentecostal, of course, are there any aspects of that that you still carry.
Tricia
Yes and in fact I have a ... probably more like a love-hate relationship with religion. Um I have so much baggage even though my um, the time that I was at church growing up was just short, it was so damaging to my psyche that I have a real hard time when it comes to all of the things that were drilled into me as far as um I mean every single day you hear in the media, all of the negative things about LGBT and how much hate there is and that was just a big part of it. And so I have, yeah, I have lasting negative feelings. Um we, Amanda was brought up Presbyterian um and she's, they, they show no emotion in church where Pentecostal is all emotion in church. I love Christian music, I love listening to it, I love Southern Gospel, you know that because that's what I listened to. Um, but Amanda is completely the opposite. She's very High Church. Um and um even though she is very butch and very, (laughter) ... um it's like she's high soprano when she sings and you know, the two just don't mix, but it really does, for her. So we, we looked at churches because to me, faith is important. Um even though I have all these negative things, I wanted to find something positive and we found the Methodist faith. Um and they are very welcoming and we were part of a really awesome church here. Um, but COVID killed it. So we haven't found a new one, but we're still very close to the people that were in the church and so they were very welcoming.
Christian
Okay. Um, this is a question just about Methodism actually. What are your thoughts on the split going on in the United Methodists right now?
Tricia
Let me tell you um ... our church was you know siding with the LGBT community, but since it closed um and we've been searching for another one, we've, we've gone to almost all of the methodist churches here in town that are still open because a bunch of them actually closed. Um we found one, their choir was great, the people were just wonderful. This group of four old ladies just grabbed hold of us and just welcomed us and they don't care, you know, and all this kind of stuff. And so we thought we found a new home, but Amanda and I are always before we go to a church and make it our home, we're gonna have a conversation with the pastor and um it's a young pastor and um so we made an appointment with the pastor because we've been there three times and really liked it and the people were just great and some of the people from Hargrove went there. Um they found their new home as well and so we thought, okay, this is great, you know, we've got several people and they were already saying you got to get in the choir and yadayadayada so we met with the pastor and just said, we're a couple and we've been going 30 years at the time. Um and he said you just need to find somewhere else to go. So he refuses to have the conversation with his congregation about whether or not they're gonna welcome the LGBT community because he doesn't want to welcome the LGBT community when those four old ladies found out about it. They were so angry. Um, but you know it-that's their pastor and he's there and there's nothing that we can do about it. I'm I was like well we should just go anyway and just you know be visible to him and say I don't care that you don't want me here, I'm here. Um, but Amanda’s like no, you know we're not gonna go, we're not welcome. And that also applies you know for me as well, but you just don't know when you should really stand and make that statement and when not.
Christian
Yes ma'am. Um soo do you have, this is kind of U turn, but do you like what are your feelings on the legislation in Alabama, but in general everywhere we're seeing it happen like anti LGBT legislation.
Tricia
I'm terrified actually. Um Amanda and I went in 2014 to D. C. and got legally married and then a year later of course it became legal everywhere and um of course before all that happened, you know it was kind of a bad thing because I had to always have a job with insurance because her insurance didn't cover me and and my insurance didn't cover her and you know so there was always that aspect um But then we got it and I was like wow this is great. And so Amanda was immediately able to adopt the girls which she hadn't been down to before then and I don't know if y'all know that my kids were, the number one- were the first same sex adoption in Alabama. Um in fact they asked us if we wanted to be front page news and I said actually not my kids, I'm not gonna do anything to put my kids in jeopardy. So it didn't make for the page news. Um, but um ... so we we got those things and we weren't expecting them but now they are so important and to think that we might lose them because of some haters you know and and it's just like there's so many things that you could do that are good in the world. Why are you focusing so much on being so hateful and doing such negative stuff. I-I just don't get it. You know that's that's not something that I understand. Um so yeah terrifies me. No I mean I don't think they could take away the adoption. I wouldn't think that they would be able to do that but to say they're gonna take away my marriage of course we were married in in D. C. And not in Alabama. Um and it was legal there beforehand, but still to to know that people are trying to take your rights away. That's that's very scary and concerning. I mean just like with the abortion, you know, it's my body, I should have the right whether I agree with abortion or not. It's not the issue, you know? But it's my body. Yeah.
Christian
Yeah. Kind of going off that you were obviously involved in organizing with the T. L. C. and all back in the day. What do you think we can kind of do nowadays to remobilize kind of younger gay people and all to combat this new crop of stuff coming up … sorta.

Tricia
Get Lynn, um My kids, we did not, sorry, we did not teach them um about protesting. We did not teach them um what you should do. It's we've left it up to them. Um and so them growing up in a gay house household, you know, um ... Lynn is now non, non-binary. (laughter) And that's a story itself. But um (sigh) we let them make any decisions for themselves. So they grew up very sheltered. I will give you that.Um we put them in private school mostly because I was afraid. Um I took them to the capital school or I went to the capital school when I was looking for um where to go because we were in the Hillcrest district and went to Capitol and I met with them and I was just blunt. I said my kids have two moms and if you have a problem with that, you need to let me know and Marty Samples was first I was talking to, I don't know why I remember her name, but she said, “We don't have a problem with that, And if anybody gives you a problem with that, you come let me know” You know, and so they were very welcoming and so I felt like that's where we needed to be. And so when Lynn was three years old, she started Capitol, they started Capitol and um we were there for many years until um, Lynn was in 10th grade and then we transition to a new school... What was your question?
Christian
Oh, um,
Tricia
I get lost.
Christian
It’s all good. You know, I mean your story, that story is, it's important. So it's totally okay. I also love going off on tangents
Tricia
The political stuff, political stuff. So anyway, we let them create their own thought patterns, you know, being in a school such as Capitol School it’s represented by so many different countries. And so they grew up with all of these diverse people, just like I did, even though they were in Tuscaloosa, they still did it through um, an environment that was opening and welcoming to all. Um, and so the political aspect of it, um, they taught themselves and they decided for themselves and I think that's what we have to do as a community. Um, we have to be open minded to allow our younger generation, uh, to make decisions for themselves and to say, hey this is right or this is wrong. And my kids are very political. In fact, O.P. will tell, has many conversations with Lynn that says because they'll contact, you know, they'll contact us and say I'm doing a protest and O.P. will say, okay, just call me and let me know if I need to come bail you out. Um and that's her stance on it is um oh he just tells Lynn, if you if you do enough protests eventually you're gonna get arrested, you know, and that's okay. Um you just have to be safe about it and be careful about it. Um and know when it's time to take a step back, but she'll be all in your face. I mean they'll be all in your face and and say, I think there's um last spring, I think they were butting heads with somebody out there. Um They think they were targeting the trans community. And then and it was it happened to be somebody from the Capitol School that they went to Capitol School with early on and they were on opposing sides and they were just at each other and they were in each other's face and um ... but they did it in a way that was okay. Um so nothing bad happened, but still they're very, very much political and and looking at the community as a whole.
Christian
Okay, how did you become involved with the Tuscaloosa Lesbian Coalition?
Tricia
Yeah, Tuscaloosa Lesbian Coalition back when Amanda and I first got together, like I said earlier, Michael’s was about the only place there was. But um, she asked me out, our very first date was to Gay Pride in Birmingham. Gay Pride had only been going on I think it was their 2nd year. Um and um, so a bunch of friends were going to Gay Pride. Did I want to go? Sure. So we went up to Gay Pride and it was at Lynn Park and Rose Gladney, who is the founder of TLC, came up to Amanda and me and said “y’all are from Tuscaloosa, aren't you?” And she said, “here, hold this” and she presented us with the banner for the Tuscaloosa Lesbian Coalition. It was a banner, big oh, huge banner and she said “walk in the parade with it” and back then, this is really taboo. You know? Um we're talking about ‘91 and so Amanda and I were front and center with this banner walking in the Gay Pride parade and we were dodging cameras, you know, when we'd see a camera, we'd lift the banner up. So nobody in my family knew. I was not out. Um She was definitely not out. In fact, she ended up being disowned by her parents, by her mother, her dad had already passed away. Um but you know, so it was, it was scary to be holding this banner at the Gay Pride parade, but we did it; And that's how I met Rose. Um and we were invited to participate in the Lesbian Coalition. ...
Christian
Okay. And what were some challenges that y'all in the TLC faced like early on in the 90s?
Tricia
Challenges, ... you know? Um, We were a close knit community, um, because there weren't very many places for us to go. Uh events for us to socialize. It became very important to us. Um And if you know anything about the T.L.C. You know that we went from houses to house to house and um we ended up our house became very involved um since I, you know, I created a lot of the newsletters, I forget what year it was handed over to to me and to Amanda. Um But it was our way of socializing. It is our way of getting together and being a community in a safe welcoming environment. Um So I guess really the only ... thing we had was being found out, you know, and and but Rose, her whole thought behind the Lesbian Coalition is front and center, you know, we are gonna be known. Um But at the time there were a lot of us that were still very much in a closed environment because we were afraid we'd lose our jobs, you know, we were afraid of the backlash. Um And in fact Amanda lost her job. Um ... Mhmm Three years after we got together, two years, maybe, two or three years afterwards. Um And somebody outed me at my work. Um So yeah it was it was a real concern. Um So that was the the biggest fear, the biggest issue that we had. Um you've seen the map, I mean my name, my address, my phone number is on it, the map is directly to my house. Um So in some ways we were very open um and um we did not use last names. That was a big thing for our newsletters. One time I mistakenly put somebody's last name in and I got a call from somebody and I went “oh my gosh” you know just completely freaked out about it but they were fine with it. Um But it still was bothersome because we were you know very cautious back then.
Christian
Yes ma'am.
Maddy
I have another question about the TLC what was maybe your best memory when you were in there?
Tricia
Um We had a lot, we had a lot of fun events. There's a place called Holly Springs. ... I don't know if you have seen a map to Holly Springs or you know about Holly Springs. Um but it's it's a place that's on the lake up Highway 43. And um the thing about it was every year we were having events there and then they found out it was a lesbian group that was renting and so they stopped renting it to anybody that wasn't family you had to have, it could be for a reunion, for a family reunion, but you had to be related. And so, um we found a loophole. And so we became the Anderson family reunion. Um and we went to Holly Springs and then the next year we did a big fundraiser um and we did a lot of games and singing. We had a band, you know, we had this just these just big events and we just got together and had a good time. So those were always good. And then we had Minnie Bruce Pratt, and Leslie Fineburg? Feinstein? Feinberg. She wrote Stone Butch Blues and she came and did readings for us and that sort of thing. That was always a lot of fun,
Maddy
Awesome. So how would you describe the quality of healthcare for gay or queer people in your youth?
Tricia
In my youth? I don't know. Now when Amanda and I first got together in the 90s when I first started um I was even fearful of my doctor finding out, because I'd have friends that would go to the doctor and tell them that they were lesbian and they would just get really bad service healthcare, the provider would berate them or whatever and just be really ugly. And so I was very cautious about it. Um of course now it's like I'm a lesbian if you have a problem with it, you know, go tell somebody else, it's not me. Um yeah, so I don't, yeah, I was too fearful to begin with to say anything.
Maddy
So what was your experience during the AIDS pandemic? ...
Tricia
I have ... During a good part of the 80s, I was a dance instructor and I worked for Fred Astaire Dance Studios and I was teaching dance and a lot of our instructors were gay um and I always, I was concerned for them. Um but they branched off and they went places and and even to this day, I don't know what happened to them and I worry about them. In fact, I was thinking about one of them not too long ago. Um and then from Michael's perspective when we were at Michael's, we had a lot of friends there and several of them contracted AIDS one of them was a drag queen um and Princess Dashae was her stage name and we ended up losing several um I had friends who weren't on stage that were also infected. Um some of them died quickly, some of them lasted for years. I went to church with some who ended up dying. So it was very much a part of my life. Um, but I wasn't extremely close to any of them. I knew them, I was a part of their circle in some way, but it wasn't anybody that I was really connected to. Um so I did not create any panels. Um I've looked for some panels just to see if anybody that I know has one. Um and I I do the AIDS memorial um account, you know, so that I see and I read of those individuals that we lost. Um I went to the, the last, the, the last time it was in completely shown as a full quilt on the Washington Mall. Um Amanda and I both went to that um and it was, you know, it was tragic, but yeah, I mean it was a part of my life um I don't know of anybody right now, that's in my circle that is affected. Um I think they've all passed away.
Maddy
So reactions. Do you remember the community in Tuscaloosa having
Tricia
um I had a friend named Joe uh this last thing escapes me now um of course Princess Dashae. Um when she, the day she found out she did a show and she ended up just sitting on the stage during her performance and just, she just sobbed. Um but people around her, they kind of supported her in a lot of ways. Um and a really close friend of mine um was really close to Princess Dashae and we saw the transition to the end for Princess Dashae and then there was Joe, and Joe um outwardly, very healthy. Princess was very, very thin. Um but that was just her um her body and she was always small, but Joe was, I mean to look at him, he was very healthy looking and you didn't think about it, but word got out that he was positive and I remember being at Michael's one day and hearing somebody say get your AIDS self away from me, you know, And, and I thought, wow, really? You know? Um, so there was definitely some negativity there. Um, but it probably was out of fear for most people. So yeah, I saw the whole spectrum of, of compassion all the way to anger and, and fear.
Maddy
Um, so how did the gay and lesbian communities work together during the AIDS crisis to combat it slash did the TLC help with any part of this crisis?
Tricia
Sure. Um, I don't remember TLC really doing a whole lot. We ended up ... backtrack, WAAO, West Alabama AIDS Outreach is what it was, it started, um, I think 20 how many years ago is it now? 25, 26, 28 years ago they started the ball, um, the, uh, Mystic Krewe of the Druids Ball. And so every year we would put on our ball gowns or our tuxedos and we would put our red ribbon on and we would go to the ball and have a fabulous night to raise money for West Alabama AIDS outreach. And then I, people were going, well, it's just a big drag show, I wish we had something else. And so we've created um, Sandy Gras. So Mardi Gras is Tuesday. Sandy Gras is Saturday. Um, and so on Saturday night we would have an alternative to the ball and it would be a sit down dinner with music and entertainment and we did that for several years and it was the same thing silent auction, you know, we also included a silent auction, that sort of thing. But we um, did fundraisers, not just for WAAO, but we also did it for something called Summer Camp. And Summer Camp is a camp for children with HIV AIDS. And so the community as a whole, I think worked very well together to raise money. Uh, and to help. Um, you never knew who got help. Um, but we all did, I think we did as much as we could, um, ... with what limited knowledge we had.
Christian
Yes ma'am. ... Um, sorry other than Michael's, were there any other gay owned or gay frequented businesses that you frequented
Tricia
That I did? But no, there was Checkers Checkers (sic.The Chukker), I think it was called uh, you know, block down from Michael's, which was very alternative. It wasn't necessarily a gay bar um or lesbian bar. It was just, it was open to anybody, but a lot of people of various and assorted backgrounds and um, they were just open to anybody. Um, so that place was also used and we went to it. But Michael’s was the big event, Michael’s and TLC is what we had.
Christian
Okay, Yes, ma'am. And at Michael's what sort of community services or contributions to the community. Um, did it sort of offer?
Tricia
Nothing. No, I mean a drink. Um, no, I mean it was a safe place for us to go. Um It was rated once. Um But ... Michael and what is his, what is Tommy's mom's name? She's still living. Michael is not,I can't think Mary Ann, I think her name is Mary Ann um they decided to thank the community for all of our patronage. So one Christmas, they opened the bar um and free. Everything was free, drinks were free, food was free, the pool tables were free, so everything is free. Um and they went to get a, it was on sunday, they went to get a permit saying, you know that they could be open on sunday and they said, oh you don't need one, it's a free event and it's, you know, so you're not selling alcohol, you don't need it. Well we got raided and they came in and the cop said if you don't want to be arrested, to get out of here right now. And so we put our, you know, our pool cues down and we walked out the door and Michael, Mary Ann, the bartenders, any, any workers, they were all arrested. Um so that was them trying to, I don't know to um, to celebrate the community and and give us something. Um but as far as anything else, I don't know that they did anything. Um other than offer us a safe place to go. …
Christian
Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um So do you know of any spaces back in the day on campus that we're sort of queer friendly, helped with the community?
Tricia
I started working here in 94. Um, and there were not any that I knew about. Um, eventually Spectrum and um, Safe Zone came up. Um, I don't even know what year they were started. Um, technically they were supposed to be welcoming. Um, but they didn't feel welcoming here on campus. So it was again, we just didn't, didn't try too much. Um, the, at ten Hoor, they did the women's studies classes. So you knew that those were welcoming environments. Um, but I don't remember there being anything that I felt safe to go to. ...
Christian
Okay. And were there any places that were sort of helpful with the TLC or with organizing with be it pride or protest or even just like outreach in the area?
Tricia
No. Um, Pride here in town didn't start until What? About 10 years ago? Some friends of mine started it um, ... Champa , Data, and Fred ... he was a Pastor, not a Pastor, but um, Community Lead at University Universalists Organization are the ones that started um, Pride here in town. There was Pride in Birmingham. But no, other than that, I don't know, I can't pinpoint any organization. Um, I mean UU has always been welcoming. Um, I later found out the University Pres here on campus was a big welcoming organization. They have now merged with Grace Presbyterian and um, so University Pres is no longer here. Um, there's another church, it's a Presbyterian church, over near the ... the sculptures of Christ and the angels right next door across from Foster Auditorium, that church is a welcoming church, but any of the others I don't know about.
Maddy
So the last question will be, what would you tell your younger self now, looking back on your life?
Tricia
Um, I wish I hadn't have been so afraid. Um, and I think my kids are just amazing because they're not afraid and they're they're willing to protest and they're willing to stick their neck out. But it's a different time. Um, people were, I mean, they're still killing us. Um mostly they're targeting the trans community now um, back then ... And we're just talking 30 years ago. Um, it wasn't welcoming, especially here in the south. It never has been, ... I kept wanting to leave the south, but Amanda was like, no, we're gonna stay here and we're gonna force it. You know, she's she's political. Um she's always been political. She's in your face. Um, and she, she's not afraid of anything. Um, I was very fearful and I would hope that, I mean, I would tell myself that it's okay to be fearful, but I still needed to be more in your face, you know, instead of hiding who I was in my job, You know, why did it take me so long to tell my bosses and now I won't have it being a job without telling my boss and it's very scary when you start a new job and you find out that you're your supervisor goes to a Baptist church, you know? And um I started a new job in ... What was it 2000 and 10 up to then I had not been out. So uh in my in my work, so in 2010, I mean just 12 years ago um I came out to my boss and that's not to say that people didn't know it was gay in my other jobs. I just didn't acknowledge that they were right, I let them figure it out for themselves and then I just let it go. But my boss, my new boss, she was Southern Baptist, you know I was going oh no, but I just felt, I was, I just felt her out and I listened to her for a few months and listened to what she was saying and then I finally just said okay and so I did make that step for the first time ever and we are now the best of friends, you know, she's already retired and in fact I had lunch with her today um and now that I'm in a new position with a new supervisor. Um Again I did the same thing, I, she’s Southern Baptist and I went, oh crap, here we go again, you know and so I just listened to them and she never said anything negative. Um and so ... when you're as old as I am, you finally just get to the point where you're just tired of, you know, having to, I don't know, not say things and so I finally just said, you know, I just, instead of saying my spouse or whatever, I just said um Amanda and you know, and let her figure it out and uh, but she's, and she even says, I don't understand it, but I'm trying, and so it's a learning process and I think for all of us it is um I hope the new generation, the upcoming generation, if they're led by Lynn and Emily, then it's gonna be great, you know, because they're just, they are who they are and they don't care, they're just gonna be protesters and and say what's on their mind and I like that. I'm still the generation that I came up with, it still makes me a little nervous sometimes. But um I wish I could be a little bit more like Amanda and like the girls, but it's just not in me, I don't know, so anything else

Christian
Um not that I can think, well that's a good ending, but I do actually, this is more my inner theater kid coming out, I'd love to hear more about dance instructing like what kind of dance did you?
Tricia
ballroom dancing? Yeah, everything from Fox trot, waltz to swing and east coast west coast swing and all of those waltzes and things. So yeah, um I taught for a couple of years um and until I left and then when I came back they had moved and they asked me to come back for a little while. And so because they didn't have a female instructor at the time, so they asked me to come back and I went back for a little while and then um and then it just got too busy and I just said I can't do it anymore. You know So yeah.

Maddy
this was great, you answered everything amazingly, [multiple people talking] and we really we’d love to have more information than less, so it was very very